i3 vs the Nissan Note e power

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EVMan

Well-known member
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Feb 25, 2017
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Technical discussion only
I recently read, the Nissan Note e power is also a serial hybrid ( no plug)
Considering the i3 serial hybrid is lot less efficient compared to the parallel hybrids , i was wondering what is going on...
The Nissan note seams not to have connection between the engine and the wheels, has same i3 rex system , with very small battery
So , why did Nissan decide not to include this direct connection
Perhaps , in Japan , they driving speeds are so low, that it did not make any sense to do it ?
or perhaps they found a way to reduce the conversion losses so much, that there was no need to have a direct connection . Lower voltage perhaps ?
 
Why do you feel the conversion losses on a serial hybrid are so bad? The engine can be run at a steady speed and it doesn't add to the gearing losses you'd experience with a required transmission to make it work when powering the wheels directly. If the method was do bad, why are diesel electric trains running as serial hybrids? The huge torque at zero rpm plays a big part in it, but an ICE is pretty poor in comparison when driving the wheels directly...they tend to need fairly high rpm to generate their peak torque.

I read that Mazda is gearing up their Wankel as a range extender, similar serial hybrid to the i3.

FWIW, the MPGe of the REx is only a few mpg lower than that BEV...some of that is because of the added weight (probably most of it).
 
jadnashuanh said:
Why do you feel the conversion losses on a serial hybrid are so bad? The engine can be run at a steady speed and it doesn't add to the gearing losses you'd experience with a required transmission to make it work when powering the wheels directly. If the method was do bad, why are diesel electric trains running as serial hybrids? The huge torque at zero rpm plays a big part in it, but an ICE is pretty poor in comparison when driving the wheels directly...they tend to need fairly high rpm to generate their peak torque.

I read that Mazda is gearing up their Wankel as a range extender, similar serial hybrid to the i3.

FWIW, the MPGe of the REx is only a few mpg lower than that BEV...some of that is because of the added weight (probably most of it).


I was comparing the gas mpeg of the serial hybrid i3 rex with parallel hybrids like prius , clarity etc
There is a significant difference

I am not saying, it should be bad, just reading the numbers. and trying to understand , how this serial tech will be more common in the future
Apparently , i guess the numbers can be improved , may be the e note have done better optimizations......
 
Some of that is based on the size of the engine involved. To get much power from a small engine, you tend to have to run it faster, which tends to be less efficient. WHen you can run it through a transmission to keep the rpms at closer to optimum, you can improve the efficiency. SO, it's a tradeoff...larger engine, everything must be larger: radiator, muffler, springs, shocks, etc. This all adds weight, which affects the overall EV efficiency, especially in stop and go traffic. Keep in mind, the i3 was not designed as a highway cruiser...it was designed as a commuting, primarily city car. There, weight becomes critical. Once a vehicle is at its cruising speed, the drag is the primary load, but accelerating is where the weight makes a huge difference. F=m*v^2, so getting to speed, especially higher, cruising speeds, is a big part of the energy required. THis is why BMW stressed about keeping the weight down. A comparable Leaf (if you can consider one comparable), weighs about 20% more, and that's without an engine, compared to a REx, and significantly more when talking about a BEV. While people will argue about it, from what I've seen, the REx was forced on the designers by the marketeering group. At the beginning, and still, the biggest hurdle to adoption of an EV is range anxiety...throwing a more familiar engine in the mix with a gas tank, allowed it to get some more sales traction. Note, it appears that at least in some markets for 2019, with the newest, larger battery, they've dropped the REx as an option. The newest battery pack has about the same range as the original REx, but strictly a BEV. At least where your electricity is produced from non-coal plants, a BEV is greener than the hybrid version.

BMW has other, all EV vehicles coming out. The battery tech is now allowing decent size and capacity units at an affordable (relatively anyways) prices.

When it comes out, I may trade my ICE and i3 BEV in for an X5 hybrid. Maybe the end of the year, but maybe delayed until next year. ENough EV range for 95% of my needs, and long range for any trip I might want with good endurance. The other thing is that it could easily tow a trailer I'm toying with buying. The EV should really help with the starting torque, and the gas tank with the range.

The iNext and electric X3 should both have good EV range. There's more where they come from in our future...pretty much every car company is starting to get on the bandwagon...in some markets, they'll have little choice if they want to continue to sell new vehicles. Some analysts have predicted that last year was the peak of ICE production.
 
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