Help !!! I am down to Three Choices.I3 REX; Volt, MB-B

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Recycledoug

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Cincinnati, OH
So I am down to 3 different EV's. Just as I was about to pull the trigger on the I3 The Volt comes into play again. The Volt may be heavier, but the Volt does have some technology in it that is unique including a second electric motor that is powered when the gas engine kicks in. Also the Volt only utilizes 80% of it's true battery capacity in order to avoid battery degradation over time. And the Volt truly is a four door.

While the Volt range is only about 40 miles, I calculated my daily mileage coupled to recharging at home (220) and work (110). The I3 does keep me electric all week. The Volt goes down hill as soon as my tethering range exceeds 20 miles coupled to multiple trips during the day.

I have heard, but not confirmed, that the 600cc gas engine in the I3 will only limp you back to a power supply. IE if you encounter steep hills or want to drive at the posted 70 mph speed limit, you won't be able to... So then is the REX really worth another $4,000 or do you just purchase the I3? Then the Volt question pops up again... If you really need to make a 150 mile + trip, the Volt will do it in spades... And then the MB B comes into play... 4 doors, a bench rear seat for a third person in the rear, and an option to extend your range another 18 miles if you need to.

So this is my first EV. Experienced EV'ers give me your thoughts, opinions, and suggestions. I have driven the I3 and the Volt... I must say that the I3 does have an "attitude" that is hard to beat... But when the objective is to squeeze all the juice out of the batteries that you can, are you really kidding yourself in really being able to enjoy all the zip???? And those rear suicide doors.... What's up with those?
 
I had a Mitsubishi i-MiEV BEV before and now an i3 REx - haven´t used the REx yet after 1.000 miles.

What you write about the REx is not true. It doesn´t limp you anywhere. You can drive in the 70-80 mph range indefinitely if you fill up the tank in between. There is also enough power to overtake other cars full throttle. The car will take the extra power from the battery and the REx will fill it back up to 6.5% SOC when power demand is lower again. Somebody in Germany reported a 900km trip in one day.
You can also climb mountains. There will only be limitations if this is a very high mountain and you drive with high speed. There will be very few situations when with a REx you are falling short of your usual driving habit. You will only notice if you drive a long distance beyond electric range and want to cross the Rocky Mountains and do so with high speed.

While it doesn´t have 4 "true" doors, the i3 offers a lot of space in front and back of the car.

Frank
 
The i3 uses only 85% of its total battery capacity (18.8 kWh out of 22).

While the Volt is a true 4-door, the i3 has a more spacious rear seat. I'm 6'2" and after adjusting the driver seat for myself I can fit behind it in the i3 with enough head room and my knees slightly splayed. In the Volt my head hit the ceiling and my legs wouldn't fit.

The B-Class Electric won't be initially available in Ohio. From http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/class/class-B/bodystyle-EDV

2014 B-Class Electric Drive will be available at Mercedes-Benz dealers in CA, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, OR, RI and VT. 50-state availability will be announced at a later date.
 
The REx is designed to be able to provide enough power to keep you and the accessories going on the flat...how badly it may be affected if you're trying to go up a long mountain grade in the winter with the heater, seat heaters, headlights, etc. running, I think you'll find the car will end up slowing down to keep you going. Elsewhere, the control logic will let you turn the REx on pretty much anytime, so you can use up your gas while under heavier load, and still run around the city on full electric. That is not really possible in the USA. I do not know if they ended up changing it, but it was originally limited to turning it on when it got below about 18% manually, and automatically if it got to that 6.5% value. That may or may not leave you with enough to go full tilt, depending on what you are asking the car to do at the time. I do not remember seeing the Kw output of the REx. Some people that actually own an i3 can report some instantaneous power usage, and then you could compare the power levels. As I understand it, you can be asking the vehicle for more power than the generator can provide, and at some point, you'll either slow down, or run out.

The Volt's engine is MUCH larger than the i3's so that it should always be able to recharge the battery while providing enough current to keep you going. It's a very different car, and the range you is not an issue, if your goal is just to keep driving (but you'll be using gasoline to do most of it!). FWIW, I don't fit in the Volt, but do comfortably into the i3, so it was not even on my short list. The MB is only going to be sold in a few states (not where I live) in the first year, so that wasn't a consideration. And, the fact that it is considerably heavier than the i3 means either you'll need more battery, or end up with shorter range, which wasn't a good choice.

In a similar size, the BEV choices in the USA really comes down to the Leaf, Ford Focus, and the i3. Of those choices, the i3 is definitely the most upscale and offers some technology not available in the others, if that's important to you.

I've said it before, but my personal feeling is that if you think you need the REx, the i3 is probably not the car for you! IT really is not designed for a casual long trip...to use it that way, you really need to plan things carefully, and watch your timing as the charge points sometimes end up not being open, and once you've exhausted the batteries to the point you need the REx, you'll not go all that far before you need to refill the tank. Certainly, you can do it, but it's not like getting into your ICE, going 300-400 miles, filling the tank, and keep going. I just drove about 400-miles today, started with about 40-miles on the tank since the last fillup, and arrived at my destination with about 50-miles more range (probably more) - the trip computer says I got 30.4mpg on my 535 x-drive GT. Mostly sitting a bit over 70mph wafting down I90, about running with traffic.

The i3 is designed as a city, commuting car...not a touring vehicle, and any use of it other than how it was intended comes with limitations you must be aware of or you'll be disappointed. IOW, if you need to exceed the comfortable range of the i3, you'll probably want to either have or rent or borrow a different car to take that trip. I will likely end up with an i3, hopefully soon, but I would not do it as an only car as I'm not willing to go out and rent one when I need or want to take a longer trip, or the i3 just isn't large enough to handle my expected load. I've taken 3 women nearly 1,000 one-way to a wedding in one day in the GT - all arrived peaceful, no cramps, pains, problems, and there was enough storage. Something that would have been impossible with the i3, REx or not.
 
The i3 is first and foremost a city car—BMW named the original concept The Megacity Vehicle after all. Its design has been optimized for stop and go, cut and thrust driving. If you spend most of your time on city streets, dashing from stop light to stop light as I do, it’s the best choice out there right now.

Others on this board will likely disagree but I don’t see it as a great choice if you drive primarily on freeways at the speed limit or above. The design parameters that make the i3 superb in traffic actually work against it on the open road. The tall profile and lightweight design mean you’re more aware of head and cross winds than in a conventional car, for example.

Don’t get me wrong. The i3 REx can make extended highway journeys, provided you keep refilling the tank. But I personally don’t see it as the right machine for that kind of duty. To be fair, you might want to temper that statement against my long history with German vehicles designed for high-speed autobahn duty. Currently, my spouse and I also have a ’09 E90 that we take when the majority of the trip will be on a highway. It really comes into its own at 80mph and above.

As to the doors, I have learned to love the i3’s design. They’re funky but work well in the tight confines typical of cities. I park in a shared, underground garage at home. One of my spaces has two structural pillars next to it. When I kept the E90 in that spot, I couldn’t open the front and rear doors simultaneously. As you can see from the photo below, it’s not an issue with the i3.

bmw-i3-doors-open.jpg


I’ve done only short test drives in a Volt. Can’t really address it as an alternative. I did have a multi-week rental of a Chevy Cruze, which shares the GM Delta II platform with the Volt. Too soft and mild-mannered for my tastes. But a decent, average car. I haven’t driven the B-class EV so have no opinion beyond it’s an adaptation of an existing vehicle so probably has too many compromises to be a serious contender.
 
I hate to say it but i'm considering cancelling my I3 order, i keep reading more troubles/problems are arrising. Even major problems (also on the german forum) like complete dead batteries...
 
Hi XXL,

while I wouldn't go so far as calling our i3 completely troublefree, please keep in mind that owners will (mostly) turn to the forums if they hit a spot of bother. Postings like 'hey, we just made a round trip to Antwerp without any trouble' (*) are not that interesting to write and read.
Then again, it would have been nice if less problems would pop up on the boards around the world...

Regards, Steven

(*) PS: which is what we did last weekend, 335 km roundtrip, 95% motormay 120 kmh,~100 km E, ~235 km REx, 30 deg c, torrential rain, thunder and wind at times, A/C working hard, 3 people on board.
 
Stevei3, how did your i3 perform on your trip. Be interested in learned about and from your experience. Please give us more.
 
Hi drb,

what would you like to know ?

In short, for I’m pressed for time and I’m not sure it isn’t too much off-topic in this thread, the car behaved admirably. Our five stop trip (home, Eindhoven (stop), Antwerp, Eindhoven (stop), home again) was marred on charging options, so we had to use our little REx (25kW version) extensively. We ran the tank all but dry twice in the 235 km of motorway RExing, taking a little over 16 litres in total. Please do the math yourself if you would like to know our mpg score. We used up all our electricity, bar 9 km, as well during city driving @ our various stops. So, 1 battery + two tanks = 335 km (with a little to spare). This is right in our expected ballpark, when driving lots of motorway @120 kmh (on cruise), mostly comfort setting, A/C, flat terrain, 3 people.

One thing we tested in Antwerp: they have cobblestone road surfaces along the ‘Rijnkaai’ (the infamous Belgian ‘kasseien’, google if interested). This is a really unbeleivably uneven roadsurface and would have been classified as torture even in the 19th century. Or as off-road track nowadays. This doesn’t feel good in/for any car. The i3 doesn’t like it either…

Regards, Steven
 
We own a Volt now and I am considering the i3 when our lease is up, but...the Volt is insanely cheap compared to the i3...We could literally lease two for the price of one i3 (including the owners choice with flex option). I honestly will have to just close my eyes and blatantly ignore that in order to proceed with the i3 given how close the two vehicles are. Of course, I have one thing in my favor...my lease is up in about 13 months and there will be several choices (including Volt 2.0) and I suspect the i3 may see some discounting.
 
I too own a Volt (a 2012) with 13 months left on the lease and I am interested in an all electric (Can't swing for a Tesla Model S), but am thinking of an i3. I travel 18 miles to work where I have access to a 240 volt charger and I have the 240 at home as well. Although my Volt is rated at 35 electric I easily get 45 miles and right now I have 50 miles of range (after a full charge). I have gone 57 miles on all electric (and not driving like a granny either). I have two concerns regarding the i3 (aside from looks). 1. Leasing price currently is insane (but I too expect the prices will change, or at least HOPE they will), 2. I have literally read and viewed dozens video reviews, but not one of them talks about the stereo. From what I have gathered, the standard one is not very good, but the HK upgrad is better. is there a review I can read on this?

If the i3 lease price doesn't come down to reality, I might just lease another Volt until the 40K dollar Tesla comes out.
 
I ordered the HK stereo -- but through a series of a events was able to get the same spec car much sooner than the original order, just minus the HK stereo.

The HK stereo is really freakin' good, but I don't miss it or the added expense. The standard stereo is totally acceptable. It's clear and responsive, it's just not as immersive as the HK.

For comparison, the standard stereo is closer to in sound to the Bose branded stereo in my Volt.
 
i3 BEV and VOLT/Ampera are about the same price in UK after grants.

There are lots more VOLT rivals in the process of launching this year from Audi A3 ETron, Volvo V60 etc.

I would do a 24h test drive of each before deciding and would include the latest diesels - especially if you do a lot of highway driving - at anything over 50 mph the city car's are hit by style over aerodynamics!

http://www.lukafoto.com/

http://motorburn.com/2014/01/12-of-the-most-aerodynamic-cars-in-production-right-now/

But remember it's Cd multiplied by frontal aera that really counts - a huge car with say 0.25Cd still requires huge energy at speed.

That said, if you really need a big high speed cruising car for long distance journeys and don't want a Tesla try the Audi A6 Ultra or BMW 520d ED

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/a6/first-drives/audi-a6-20-tdi-ultra-first-drive-review

http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/green-cars/bmw/5-series/
 
Oh and even a VOLT can sound like an old diesel on a cold day!

See 0:52 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNXo9cJ0H9s
 
ecoangel said:
That said, if you really need a big high speed cruising car for long distance journeys and don't want a Tesla try the Audi A6 Ultra or BMW 520d ED

Unfortunately the big diesels you cite are not an option for the OP because they're not imported to the US.
 
There have been a lot of good points and observations. My perspective is from that of a 3+ year Volt owner and longtime BEV driver. In no particular order:

Cost/Financing - This one is hands-down for the Volt. Aside from the lower MSRP, you'll likely find better discounts and financing.

Handling - In keeping with BMW's tradition, I was impressed with the i3's handling. Having said that, the Volt is no slouch, and I wouldn't compare it at all with a Chevy Cruze, which, BTW, I've test-driven as well. I'll give this one to i3, but again, Volt is still snappy, particularly in Sport Mode.

EV-ness - While i3-REx and Volt are both PHEVs, there are some advancements on the the i3 that make this the better choice. Items here include size of onboard charger (6.6kW vs. 3.3kW in the Volt, so 2x faster Level 2 charging), EV range (~80 +/- 10 miles with REx vs. ~37 mi with Volt), and DC Fast Charge (i3 has it as an option, Volt does not). I'll also stick in the regen braking abilities (i3 has one built-in aggressive mode, Volt has a separate L "gear"). This category is one of the top reasons I'm going with a REx after I turn in my Volt in a few weeks. I do a lot of free opportunity charging, so I'm a big fan of faster Level 2 charging. I should be able to get ~25 mi/hr of charging with REx vs. about 9-10 mi/hr with the Volt.

Operating Range - Depending on the type of long-distance driving you need to do, Volt offers a more convenient operating range of about 350-400 miles before refueling. If I had to do frequent long trips exceeding 160 miles per segment, I might find refilling the 1.9 gal tank every 70-80 miles inconvenient.

Interior - The i3 is definitely stylish and feature-rich. Some would read this as overly complicated. I actually like the Volt interior and functionality and they've improved it since the first model year. The deal-breaker for some is that the Volt is still a 4-seater. I actually give both cars pretty decent comparable marks on cargo space. I also really like the Volt seats and they're good for long trips.

Exterior - I've liked the looks of the Volt and I've received several compliments over the years. The i3 is stylish in its quirky way. I happen to like somewhat distinctive cars also (hey, I drove a Th!nk city), so that doesn't bother me. This one is completely a personal choice.

Reliability - This might be controversial, but I'm definitely going to give this one to the Volt. It's been out now since late 2010 and it's been a solid car, certainly for me and many other Volt owners I know. From the initial i3 reports, this concerns me somewhat. I would have thought that BMW would have worked out more of the issues from what they learned from the MINI and ActiveE programs. I've never heard of anyone being stranded (i.e., unplanned shutoff) by a Volt, and we know that isn't the case with the i3.

Well, that's what comes to mind for me. BTW, when someone mentioned the Volt's inability to recharge the battery once depleted and driving in "Extended Range" (some call it CS or Charge-Sustaining mode), it's not true. Technically, one can use the lesser-used "Mountain Mode" of the Volt to charge the battery to about 25% (10 miles, I don't recall the spec). Also, in the newer Volts (and definitely the European ones like the the Ampera), one can make the car fire up the gas engine to charge the battery in advance. This is useful in cities that enforce clean air standards so one can use gas in the outskirts of the city and then drive in EV mode.

In summary, if you really can't go wrong with a Volt, particularly if some of the downsides I've mentioned are a big concern. If you're a bit more of an EV adventurer and want something that stands out a little more, I'd look into the i3-REx. Just be prepared to pay more for it.

Good luck,
David
 
Whilst the Volt is certainly a considerable technical achievement (particularly at launch) it seems to me its complexity in terms of the drivetrain will add to its long term running costs and perhaps reliability?

The i3 seems much simpler mechanically, although software is perhaps another matter!
 
Good point, electricvirgin; however, my response was to the original plea by Recycledoug, comparing the i3-REx (not the pure EV i3) to the Volt; I didn't comment on the MB B-series EV. The REx also has an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) in it, so I would consider the complexity factor to be similar to other PHEVs, not to mention conventional hybrids.

We'll have to see how these PHEVs perform in the long run, but I do appreciate that the Volt takes considerable care to protect the traction battery pack by keeping the true SOC around 30-90%. (Sorry, I don't have the exact numbers, but my recollection on the bottom end from the Volt chief engineer was around 30%.) If the conventional hybrids could be used for comparison, I would say that they're generally holding up at least as well as expected.
 
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