DC fast charging

I have come to understand that you can get DC (direct current?) fast charging capability as a $700 option on the i3.

This is not to be confused with BMW's optional fast charger for $1k. From what I've read, it seems with the DC fast charge option, and a DC charger you can charge completely in close to 30minutes.

Problem is, where are these chargers? One company claims to have them, but their "map" fails to indicate what type of chargers are where. They only say "level 2" charger for example. What is this? Is it the DC fast charge?

Also can one instal one of these DC chargers at home? If so, who sells? BMW?

very interested, as if the DC chargers are widely available I might forgo the Rex option.
thanks

DC fast chargers cost about $30k, is that in your budget?

nickez said:

I have come to understand that you can get DC (direct current?) fast charging capability as a $700 option on the i3.

This is not to be confused with BMW's optional fast charger for $1k. From what I've read, it seems with the DC fast charge option, and a DC charger you can charge completely in close to 30minutes.

Problem is, where are these chargers? One company claims to have them, but their "map" fails to indicate what type of chargers are where. They only say "level 2" charger for example. What is this? Is it the DC fast charge?

Also can one instal one of these DC chargers at home? If so, who sells? BMW?

very interested, as if the DC chargers are widely available I might forgo the Rex option.
thanks

Click to expand...

None of the charging options are linear so as the battery gets near 100 % all of the chargers slow down. This is especially noticeable with rapid DC charging which can charge from 0-80 % in 30 minutes, but takes nearly an hour to do the bit from 80-100 % (estimated). These charging units are not available for fitting to domestic premises as the current they draw is probably beyond the capacity of a domestic grid connection.

Availability of public DC charging (and the operator information thereof) depends where in the world you are. The UK has some and there are more coming online every month, but they are far from widespread. In the UK the DC charging option cannot currently compete with the REX option if you are making regular journeys outside the battery range and or don't have easy alternatives transport.

Level 2 chargers (AKA fast chargers) charge at a rate between the rapid DC chargers and the normal domestic plug charging rate (so level 2 is 4 and 5 hours for i3s, normal domestic plug charge takes about 10 hours). These can be fitted at a domestic premises and in the UK there is a government subsidy to help cover the cost.

Bill

nickez said:

I have come to understand that you can get DC (direct current?) fast charging capability as a $700 option on the i3.<snip>
Problem is, where are these chargers? One company claims to have them, but their "map" fails to indicate what type of chargers are where.

Click to expand...

http://www.plugshare.com

You can zoom in on your region of the world, and filter on fast chargers to find them.

So, I think CHAdeMO DCFC seems to be the terminology used to describe these aka "fast chargers, and the "superchargers" are for Tesla cars only.

Next questions are… Is this the same physical plug that comes standard with the i3? In other words, if you get the DC fast charge option on the i3, can you only use these chargers? Or do they actually install two separate charge points on the car?

thanks for clarifications

Unfortunately for consumers, there are 2 formats for DCFC (3 if you count Tesla's supercharger). The predominant is CHaDeMo, which is used by Nissan and other Japanese manufacturers. BMW opted for a different standard called CCS (there are variations of this). GM, Mercedes and VW have also announced support for CCS.

The problem in the US is that ChaDeMo is far ahead of CCS in terms of installations. Outside of California, its virtually impossible to find a CCS charger. That will likely change, but its going to take a while.

I have no idea why CCS was chosen by BMW/MB/GM/VW, but having a format war is really a bad deal for consumers. Its like looking for a gas station (for an ICE) and thinking - My car only takes Shell, I can't go to BP. Really, really consumer-unfriendly.

DCFC is NOT the same as Level 2. Those are pretty much standardized and use the same plug. Level 2 is the most deployed, and you can generally charge at 3-4 hours from empty on level 2. Home 220-240V chargers are typically level 2.

A DC fast charging station needs to be able to produce about 400vdc at around 125A (or more) to get the max the i3 can accept (50Kw). To do this efficiently, you'd probably need a 150A dedicated circuit being fed with 480vac or somewhere near there. This is why they are pretty much limited to commercial installations, not counting their actual hardware costs.

There isn't an easy plug conversion from the existing networks to the SAE CCS standard. This is because of the signaling protocol that allows the car to be compatible and even start to charge are different.

BMW, in conjunction with one supplier, will be installing some 25Kw CCS units, starting very soon. THey chose that lower current unit because, first, it is less expensive to buy (as much as a third of the bigger units), and second, it requires a much cheaper infrastructure (power) coming in, so more places will find it suitable without excessive costs. The disadvantage is that being half power of what the i3 can handle, it will take longer to charge the vehicle. But, as already said, the charging is NOT linear...it may start out fast, but tapers off as the battery gets closer to full. By not pushing as much through initially, things don't heat up as much, and it probably won't be all that much longer to fill the battery with one of these, but it WILL take longer (still, a lot faster than the Level 2 at max). FWIW, level 1 EVSEs use 120vac input, level 2 EVSEs use 240vac input and the i3, at max, can accept 7.4Kw. The actual current output from any unit can vary, but it sends out a signal that the car uses to decide how much of what's available it wants - never trying to pull more than the EVSE says it can supply (which is what the signal it sends out identifies).

There are some full, 50Kw units being installed, and some of the existing ones are being retrofitted with the SAE plug and a controller so that they can service both CHAdeMo stuff and the SAE standard. There are more DC fast chargers for the Japanese stuff out there because they've been sold now in the USA for about 3-4 years...the i3, less than 6-months. It will take awhile to catch up, but with many of the car manufacturers in the USA now standardized on this, there will be a lot more pressure to put in DC fast charging for them...CHAdeMo will have to fight for itself. In Europe, they officially will stop supporting that in 2018 - any new units after that time would support only their approved standard (same functionality as the SAE, but they chose to use a different plug).

With the carbon fiber body, I'd like to believe these cars could last a long time.

Hopefully maybe even battery upgrades possible in the future.

So, I'm still curious about my previous specific question-- If you get the DC fast charge as an option, and with an eye to the future, can you still charge with the equipment that BMW currently supplies?

Because from the images I've found online the DC SAE plug is different from the plug that comes standard on the i3.

So how is this resolved, do they install two electrical inputs on the car?

The "normal" port on the i3 is a J1772 standard that works for Level 1 and Level 2 charging. When you get the DCFC option (maybe standard next year), it adds 2 additional contacts in a configuration just below the standard Port. An SAE Combo charger (e.g. level 3 fast charger) combines the J1772 plug plus the extra contacts for fast charging into a single connector.

For the most part, you can use any level 2 charger with the i3 (3.5 to 4.5 hour charging time from empty). For a fast charge (20 minutes to 80%), you have to use an SAE Combo plug (also called CCS) which are much harder to find, especially outside of California. In Europe, the CCS deployments seem to be far ahead of here in the US.

nickez said:

Because from the images I've found online the DC SAE plug is different from the plug that comes standard on the i3.

So how is this resolved, do they install two electrical inputs on the car?

Click to expand...

One socket, but it can use both:

Great!

Now I unserstand! Thanks!

Does anyone know if there are additional changes made to the i3 when you get the DC fast charge option?

Or is it just the input socket change?

If it's just the socket, I imagine this is an update that could easily be added to the car at a later date if needed.

DC FC is a factory option that is NOT upgradeable at a later date. There is more than just the socket (DC electronics vs. AC electronics for a start)

Ok, but so we're clear for everyone,

you can still use ac chargers even with the DC fast charge option installed?

Yes. Level 1 (110v adapter included in purchase of the car) and Level 2 (Public Charging stations and in-home EVSE's) are standard on the car. You have to purchase DC Fast Charge (Level 3) as an option.

For review - Level 1 charges in ~20 hours from 120v AC. Level 2 charges in 3.5 - 5 hours and requires 240V service and an in-home EVSE (or a public charging station). Level 3 is the "Quick Charge" of ~80% capacity in ~20 minutes.

Yes, we got all that,

but can you confirm that you can still use ac chargers with the DC fast charge option installed?

nickez said:

Yes, we got all that,

but can you confirm that you can still use ac chargers with the DC fast charge option installed?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your question, but on the US i3 L1/L2 charging capabilities via the J1772 inlet are the same whether or not you have the DCFC option.

If you have DCFC you have a second charging receptacle for DC, the AC charging system is not affected. My car has two charging receptacles with two caps under the side flap.

Very interesting! thank you

The 2015 i3, from some feedback, appears that the DC fast charge will be standard in the USA. No idea if the list price will change, as that somewhat depends on the exchange rate and the whim of the gods and sales people.

Again, adding that option does not change you ability to use any of the ac EVSEs (level 1 or 2), it only adds the ability to use the DC fast charger.

nickez said:

Yes, we got all that,

but can you confirm that you can still use ac chargers with the DC fast charge option installed?

Click to expand...

Yes adding DC charging does not disable any of the other charging options.

Bill