FaceBook i3 group pros and cons

Hi all.

The coding topic has been polluted with discussion of the pros and cons of FB. Rather than continue wrecking the coding topic I have moved the last post here in the hope that we can talk about the pros and cons of FB and let the coding guys continue in peace.

Please discuss FB issues here and leave the coding topic for coding.

i3atl said:

I33t said:

My point is that the data in the i3 FB group is locked up, not because FB locks it up, but because the group decided to lock it up. Several links have been posted here, and this is what you get when you click:

Access to information shared is locked up by the group. Dumb.
You can post a link to any thread on this site to a non member and they can read it. Smart.

It's also possible to lock sections of a forum or all of it, so this is not a complaint about FB it's a complaint about people wanting to create pseudo secret societies on the internet. If you don't get the irony of people giving away all their privacy to FB and then creating a private FB group then LOL.

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I really don't care to continue the FB discussion, but since you guys keep posting information that's incorrect or misleading that might turn other people away from such a great resource for the i3, it seems like it needs to be clarified. There's no "secret society" in regard to the i3 group on Facebook - anyone who has a FB account can join, no one gets denied. The reason you can't see the posts is because the group is set to "Closed" so that all the info we post/discuss about the i3 doesn't end up in our news feed for all of our friends/family to see. As soon as you join the group, you can see all of the info in it.

FWIW, there is another group setting called "Secret" for groups that don't want to be seen/found, but that's not the one that's in use for this group, and as I said - anyone who wants to join can join.

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So I was correct. The problem with the group is not FB per se, but the decision to put i3 coding there which made a mess of your other FB communications unless you hide them away in a closed group. The motives may be different, but the results are the same.

I can see why the group is set to "Closed" now, but that just causes issues with seeing the information when not logged in. If the posts were on a forum such as this one, there would be no reason to lock the access. Basically, you're using a hammer to crack a nut and impacting accessibility in the process.

I33t said:

So I was correct. The problem with the group is not FB per se, but the decision to put i3 coding there which made a mess of your other FB communications unless you hide them away in a closed group. The motives may be different, but the results are the same.

I can see why the group is set to "Closed" now, but that just causes issues with seeing the information when not logged in. If the posts were on a forum such as this one, there would be no reason to lock the access. Basically, you're using a hammer to crack a nut and impacting accessibility in the process.

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One additional advantage that FB has, in addition to the files section that all can add to or edit in, is the great ease of posting pictures.

However, the real bottom line is that the center of mass of i3 discussion today appears to be on FB. Good luck moving it. It will move all by itself on its own time for whatever reasons that may never be known. Such is the nature of semi-public discussion forums.

i3Alan said:

However, the real bottom line is that the center of mass of i3 discussion today appears to be on FB. Good luck moving it.

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If the centre of mass is on FB, I'm not missing it, and I have no interest in moving it. I didn't join FB because of the privacy implications, and it hasn't changed significantly. I wonder how many FB users are aware.

https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy/your-info

The FB is just one area for i3 discussions. This is another, and there are several other BMW forums with i3 sections and other car forums with i3 discussions (even on the Tesla Forums). AFAIK the FB i3 area is the only one that is inaccessible to non members and it has now been revealed that this is because of the internal structure of FB itself.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/internet-death-privacy-google-facebook-alex-preston

The message seems to be that if you really want to keep something private, treat it as a secret, and in the age of algorithmic analysis and big data, perhaps best to follow Winston Smith's bitter lesson from Nineteen Eighty-Four: "If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself."

Here lies our greatest risk, one insufficiently appreciated by those who so blithely accept the tentacles of corporation, press and state insinuating their way into the private sphere. As Don DeLillo says in Point Omega: "You need to know things the others don't know. It's what no one knows about you that allows you to know yourself." By denying ourselves access to our own inner worlds, we are stopping up the well of our imagination, that which raises us above the drudge and grind of mere survival, that which makes us human.

I asked Josh Cohen why we needed private lives. His answer was a rallying cry and a warning. "Privacy," he said, "precisely because it ensures we're never fully known to others or to ourselves, provides a shelter for imaginative freedom, curiosity and self-reflection. So to defend the private self is to defend the very possibility of creative and meaningful life."

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I33t said:

I can see why the group is set to "Closed" now, but that just causes issues with seeing the information when not logged in. If the posts were on a forum such as this one, there would be no reason to lock the access.

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Pretty much why I asked Tom to look into adding a file library to this forum. See http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1109

Facebook does not have the capability to organize threads anywhere near as efficiently as this forum does. Adding a file library with editable files would drive much more traffic, which could eventually establish this forum as the single source most reliable presence to ask, answer, and discuss all things i3 related.

PriusChat is a good example of why forums get info out better than FaceBook. Nobody seeks out a Facebook group for information about the Plug-In Prius because PriusChat provides far more comprehensive information, to include file libraries, "likes received" to compare against postings to establish credibility of those posting, and mandatory entries for location on the globe so the myBMWi3 community can more efficiently answer questions.

I33t said:

So I was correct. The problem with the group is not FB per se, but the decision to put i3 coding there which made a mess of your other FB communications unless you hide them away in a closed group. The motives may be different, but the results are the same.

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No, the reason it's closed IS because of Facebook. At some point a while back, Facebook decided to start sharing posts from groups directly to your news feed - for people who had no interest and/or weren't part of those groups to see. At that point, every group on FB that I'm a part of switched to closed. However, it's not a bad thing - as long as anyone is allowed to join (as is the case with the i3 group), the data isn't any more hidden than it would be in an open Facebook group. You're acting as if it's locked away and only available to a select few, but it's really only unavailable to those who decide against joining Facebook.

As Alan said, the bulk of the i3-related discussion and information is, at this point, shared on Facebook. This is the first car/model I've been affiliated with where this is the case, as I typically prefer one of the various forums for sharing this type of info. The points about creating/sorting threads and the difficulty around searching past posts are all valid, and the forums typically provide better functionality in that regard. None of that changes the fact that the Facebook group is currently a great resource for i3-related information.

i3atl said:

I33t said:

So I was correct. The problem with the group is not FB per se, but the decision to put i3 coding there which made a mess of your other FB communications unless you hide them away in a closed group. The motives may be different, but the results are the same.

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No, the reason it's closed IS because of Facebook.

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Here is my basic beef about i3 information in a private FB group. If you post information in a closed FB group, you are effectively hiding it from the internet, except for those users who happen to join FB and are aware of that group and join it. If you post that information here, or on any other open forum it would not be hidden and available to all regardless of membership.

If it helps, I also disagree with making forums private to members only, and I do not participate in any forum that hides content in that way. The benefits of the internet is sharing information with all users, not just the users who happen to be members of a particular group or forum. The number of times I have benefited from finding information in other forums on the web informs my views. I also know that information I have posted on the net has benefited others. It is an amazing resource and it loses some of that when information is posted in private areas.

I also stay away from FB secret group.

FB is a tool to let your friends know you are still alive, what you had for lunch and to show off your vacation photo. It is NOT a discussion forum nor collabouration tool. Posting technical information in FB secret group is like hitting a nail with a wrench. Yes, you can do it, but it is just wrong.

Also, there is no need for my friend's friend to know what I am driving, and to have more information than I would like to share with them.

Blue20 said:

I also stay away from FB secret group.

FB is a tool to let your friends know you are still alive, what you had for lunch and to show off your vacation photo. It is NOT a discussion forum nor collabouration tool. Posting technical information in FB secret group is like hitting a nail with a wrench. Yes, you can do it, but it is just wrong.

Also, there is no need for my friend's friend to know what I am driving, and to have more information than I would like to share with them.

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+1

Seems like the i3 Facebook groups are more active than the i3 Forums. New to the i3, I appreciate all the user information I can get. Seems, like the hot topic is regarding fast public charging. Doesn't apply to me in my area.

mindmachine said:

Blue20 said:

I also stay away from FB secret group.

FB is a tool to let your friends know you are still alive, what you had for lunch and to show off your vacation photo. It is NOT a discussion forum nor collabouration tool. Posting technical information in FB secret group is like hitting a nail with a wrench. Yes, you can do it, but it is just wrong.

Also, there is no need for my friend's friend to know what I am driving, and to have more information than I would like to share with them.

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+1

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Blue20 & mindmachine: It's not a "secret group" I am in fact the creator of that group as well as the admin here, and both are good for different things. The group was a "public" group when I first created it, but many members didn't want their friends and family to constantly see what they were posting about the i3 in their news feed so many asked me to make it a "private" group.

What that did was make their posts stay in the group so if you joined the group, and posted all day in the group about i3 stuff, none of your friends would see the your i3 posts, only the people in the group see it. Facebook used to operate that way when I started the i3 group three years ago, but they changed the settings and all of the posts you made in groups appeared on your timeline and your friends news feed. People didn't like that all the posts they made about the i3 (some very technical) were showing up on their friends news feeds. So we took a poll and over 80% of the group wanted the group settings changed to Private (closed) which would then keep the posts within the group, and only group members could see them. There is nothing secretive about the group. I allow anyone to join and post what they want as long as it isn't taunting and confrontational. In fact, I use the same set of "rules for posting" there as I do here.

I think both are great resources for the i3 and I encourage people to use both if they want up to date i3 info.

TomMoloughney said:

I think both are great resources for the i3 and I encourage people to use both if they want up to date i3 info.

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+1

Tom, I could not agree more, and I thank you!

TomMoloughney said:

I think both are great resources for the i3 and I encourage people to use both if they want up to date i3 info.

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Exactly.