Update on KLE replacement problem

Wanting to avoid being at the end of the list for the upgrade (because I actually care), I called my local dealer about the KLE/SW update. Of course, they were 100% clueless and adopted the "you're crazy-- we've never heard about that" tone of voice that enthusiasts are all familiar with. Sigh.

Guess I'll wait a few weeks and try again.

@chrisn not sure where in the world you are, but in the UK the dealers have not yet been told about it. It seems like the US is being prioritised as they see the problem more frequently - BMW NA should be fully aware of everything but that doesn't guarantee anything of-course.

My dealer is keeping an eye on the situation, and are going to let me know when BMW UK distribute any information - I will update here when I get any update.

jasleinstein said:

Boatguy,

I would like to say my pointed statements and questions sent to the concierge service and escalation procedures made a difference. Frankly the online service and concierge are worthless. I worked with my dealer Seattle BMW, and made it clear I felt BMW dropped the ball here and left both myself and Seattle BMW looking stupid as they sold me a bad product and BMW was not open and honest about this serious issue, until I pushed very hard. BMW didn't find or contact me, I had to push them. I'll keep that in mind when I am ordering my Tesla Model three.

Click to expand...

That had also been my experience the iConcierge. In fact one guy was so bad as to write me information that completely contradicted an official BMW press release (that's really poor support training). Finally I received a call from John Tarpy who I think is perhaps the manager of that area and got a much better answer.

Overall, I completely agree that BMW's dealer network and support are appalling on this product. One of the reasons I leased my i3 was to be in a position to switch to the Tesla 3. I think any car manufacturer working through a dealer network is going to be very challenged to compete with Tesla on service and support. The manufacturers have no way to really quality control the customer experience when it goes through a third party.

Chrisn said:

Of course, they were 100% clueless and adopted the "you're crazy-- we've never heard about that" tone of voice that enthusiasts are all familiar with. Sigh.

Guess I'll wait a few weeks and try again.

Click to expand...

My experience as well. But this is no different than other phantom BMW issues in the past. The SA needs a problem to fix. I'll prob just book a service appt for slow charging in a few weeks and that is more likely to get the ball rolling.

It would be great if someone could post the contents of the service bulletin.

brosher said:

Chrisn said:

Of course, they were 100% clueless and adopted the "you're crazy-- we've never heard about that" tone of voice that enthusiasts are all familiar with. Sigh.

Guess I'll wait a few weeks and try again.

Click to expand...

My experience as well. But this is no different than other phantom BMW issues in the past. The SA needs a problem to fix. I'll prob just book a service appt for slow charging in a few weeks and that is more likely to get the ball rolling.

It would be great if someone could post the contents of the service bulletin.

Click to expand...

AFAIK there is no service bulletin right now. That's why the average service department does not know about it.

Hi. I'm from the UK and am only just hearing about the KLE issue.

Can someone explain what it is and how would I know if I have it.

My car has gone in twice due to A/C issues (now resolved - software issue) and I'm wondering if they have reduced my charge rate whilst it was there as it seems slower to charge. It's about to go in again for a further software update (sat nav issue).

I'm also currently having a problem that when charging at home it often trips the earth leakage switch on the fuse box. I was going to ask them to test for earth leakage and am now wondering if this has anything to do with the KLE issue? Has anyone else had earth tripping issues.

Thanks

Simon

BMW has, apparently, identified a problem with the KLE when the temperature gets warmer. This could happen in the UK, but is more likely in warmer places. But, it can affect everyone's vehicle so it makes some sense to prioritize those areas where the average temps are higher. What appears to happen is that it can cause the KLE to fail, and very significantly reduce the ability of the vehicle to charge (as I understand it, the KLE and the motor/generator share the charging role). TO avoid more failures, there's a software update that reduces the maximum charge rate based partly on the system temperature, so if it is cool enough, you may not notice. They have modified the KLE design, and are starting to produce them, with some trickling out. Until that production stream can satisfy both the new vehicle production line and the replacements, the s/w fix has been implemented. Eventually, everyone will likely get revised software and probably a new KLE, but since the northern hemisphere is going into fall/winter with cooler temperatures, the rush might be slowed slightly. I would expect before summer arrives again, everyone will be restored to 'normal'. If yours has completely failed, you might get a 'new' one, or one of the 'old' designs - the supply of the 'new' ones is very small at this time, but the supply of the 'old' ones is also running out since they're not producing them any more.

As to the ground fault, I do not know the failure mode of the KLE to tell you whether that could be the reason or not. A ground fault circuit measures the current going out on one power lead and compares it to that coming back on the other...they should be identical, otherwise, you'd not have a complete circuit. If some of it leaks to ground in some way, once it exceeds about 5mA or so, the system shuts down to protect you as that current has to be 'leaking' somewhere in a path it's not designed for. Now, in reality, that's hard with a vehicle sitting on rubber tires, but obviously still possible. Have you tried the vehicle on other EVSEs?

I have had a problem with my charger tripping (its a rolec 32amp unit) I am in the process of having the RCD replaced as it seems to be faulty. The rolec units have an integrated RCD.

You most likely have the KLE downrate, I do too. But at the moment the weather being as rubbish and cool as it is, I am hardly noticing.

You might want to try the reduced setting on the L2 charge to see if that also trips your RCD, it could be that you need a better RCD that can handle a higher constant loading. Mine only trips on Max, and my RCD's are warm to touch once tripped.

Thanks for the info. My RCD is separate from the main fuse box. Haven't checked whether it gets warm.

Spoke to the dealer today to book in for the sat nav software fix and mentioned the KLE and my RCD tripping. He hadn't heard of KLE and was going to speak to their main i3 techie and call me back.

Waiting to hear....

Because I knew of the problem from this forum and the Facebook group, back in August I specifically asked BMW UK if I would have reduced charge on my (September handover) REx. Stewart Darley wrote back :-

"Therefore, your BMW i3 will be updated prior to its delivery to you. In certain circumstances, dependent on the vehicle and ambient temperature, a reduction in charge time may be experienced over the previous software.
BMW is working on a solution which will fully restore the normal charging performance with the AC fast charge. We anticipate that this will be rolled out full within the next 6 months. I am sorry for any inconvenience this may cause."

I think he meant an Increased charge time! The implication is that there will be a universal retrofit within 6 months, with priority given to cars with problems, cars in hot countries, then finally the rest of us.

To frame my question, here's some background: About a month ago, the KLE in our i3 was replaced. Presumably, the software was also revised as described elsewhere on this forum to reduce the charging rate under higher-temperature conditions to prevent another KLE failure. (I know some here have had the redesigned KLE installed already. Our dealer hasn't got the word on that yet and is supposed to be checking into it for me.) I don't have the equipment to measure the wattage at which my car is charging when plugged in to our BMW Wallbox (hardwired on a dedicated 40-amp circuit), but I can measure the amperage using a clip-on ammeter at the electrical panel. Even after the KLE replacement, the Wallbox uses only 14.6 to 14.7 amps. I haven't kept detailed notes, but charge times are also longer than I believe they should be. I've measured the amperage at various states of charge and ambient temperatures, and all measurements are in that vicinity. Isn't the amperage too low? Shouldn't it be higher than approximately half of the 30-amp rating of the EVSE, notwithstanding the reduced temperature-dependent charging rate implemented by the software revision? Could someone who has an ammeter measure their amperage for me? (Pardon the repetition, but I've also posted this question on the i3 Facebook page.) Later edit--I've received some replies on the Facebook page, so check there if you're interested.

The supposed power rating of the factory KLE is 2 units of 3.6KW, each for a total of 7.2KW. If these KLE units were operating at full capacity, you would be drawing 30.0 amps at 240 volts, or 32.73 amps at 220 volts. My i3 draws about 22amps at 240 volts with the Level 2 charge set to "max", and I'm sure that I have the downrated software. You can draw your own conclusions about your situation, with this data.

The KLE only has one 16amp inverter, not two as you say. The other 16amp inverter is actually in the EME (Electrical Machine Electronics). Together they provide 32amps if working properly.

Another thing to consider is the supply. In most instances, you aren't delivering 240V to the vehicle. It's quite often somewhere between 210V and 240V. For instance, at my house, I rarely deliver more than 230V to the EVSE, so my 30 amp unit can't deliver more than 6.9kW to the car even though it can accept it. One thing I've seen all over the internet is how most people just use 240V as the figure they use when calculating charging times, and that's not accurate. It's even worse when using public charging infrastructure which typically uses three phase 208v supply. In those instances, it's very common to only be getting about 200v-202V.

:shock: Charger on the i3 specifications states 7.4kWh?

ted99 said:

The KLE only has one 16amp inverter, not two as you say. The other 16amp inverter is actually in the EME (Electrical Machine Electronics). Together they provide 32amps if working properly.

Click to expand...

This is a bit nit picky, but an inverter converts DC to AC, while a rectifier converts AC to DC. The KLE/EME contain rectifiers to convert the AC at the plug into DC for the batteries.

FWIW, the charging circuits in the i3 are most likely switching power supplies. You'd never get 400vdc from 240vac without boosting the voltage in some manner and switching power supplies tend to be the smallest and most efficient way to do that, especially when weight is an issue.

ted99 said:

The supposed power rating of the factory KLE is 2 units of 3.6KW, each for a total of 7.2KW. If these KLE units were operating at full capacity, you would be drawing 30.0 amps at 240 volts, or 32.73 amps at 220 volts. My i3 draws about 22amps at 240 volts with the Level 2 charge set to "max", and I'm sure that I have the downrated software. You can draw your own conclusions about your situation, with this data.

The KLE only has one 16amp inverter, not two as you say. The other 16amp inverter is actually in the EME (Electrical Machine Electronics). Together they provide 32amps if working properly.

Another thing to consider is the supply. In most instances, you aren't delivering 240V to the vehicle. It's quite often somewhere between 210V and 240V. For instance, at my house, I rarely deliver more than 230V to the EVSE, so my 30 amp unit can't deliver more than 6.9kW to the car even though it can accept it. One thing I've seen all over the internet is how most people just use 240V as the figure they use when calculating charging times, and that's not accurate. It's even worse when using public charging infrastructure which typically uses three phase 208v supply. In those instances, it's very common to only be getting about 200v-202V.

Click to expand...

The last two paragraphs were someone else's post somehow attached to my post, but I agree with them. I also admit the error of saying 7.2KW, rather than 7.4KW. Revise the math accordingly. In my particular case, my building has a 480v primary distribution and my 40amp breaker is supplied by a 480/240v. center-tapped transformer, so I do have an actual 240v. supply--which as the extra poster said is highly unusual in residence electrical systems. As your supply voltage goes down, the required current to make the maximum 7.4 KW charging rate (once our KLE units are replaced) goes up. For instance, at 208v. the required current is 34.62amps. You can see that using at least #8 wire is really essential for wiring to your EVSE.

Is there a way to test or show the charge rate? Last night, I used a charger at the local chev dealer and after about 4 hours, it was about 95% done. Tonight, its predicting ~8 hours. The only thing I've done is go into the connected drive menu, push the options button, and do an update BMW assist. The BMW genius told me to do this to try and fix a data connection problem. Have I updated the system software that reduced the charge rate? The other difference is that its much colder tonight at about 0F degrees.

FWIW, you can't force power into a super cold battery, so warming it up is a factor - more so as it gets colder out. Not all EVSE's are created equal. The i3 internally will try to get as much as 7.4kw (or about 32A) at full tilt. Depends on how big your EVSE is. Considering that the software update affected the charge rate when it was hot out, not sure if cold would cause it to reduce the charge rate. There are no user readouts in the i3 to indicate how much current it is drawing. You can get an approximation from the time it reports to reach a full charge, but since the charge rate does not remain the same - it tapers off at the end, that can be a little tricky. When you used that EVSE at the Chevy dealer, you probably plugged in after driving the i3...IOW, it had already conditioned the batteries so it could start charging immediately. Now, you might have plugged in immediately upon reaching home, but if it sat for awhile, that could account for the difference. This assumes that your EVSE can provide the 32A the i3 can accept. My i3 has the current s/w that can limit the current input, but I've monitored close to the max my EVSE can provide (I added a volt/amp meter on the input to my EVSE). That meter was inexpensive, and I have not tried to see how well it is calibrated, so it could be off, but it did indicate just under 7Kw going in, and that corresponds to the EVSE I have's max of 30A pretty close.

The Update BMW Assist menu item only pushes some data, it does not reprogram any operational code.

I asked my service manager about KLE issues since my car seems to be taking a long time to charge. He said, if I had a blown KLE, I'd know it because the dash would be lit up like a Christmas tree with all kinds of high voltage errors. Has that been everyone's experience? I had my key read by my local dealer and it said my I-Level HO is I001-14-07-503. It says New integration level available = true.

Does it sound like my car is up to date? The BMW i support told me the latest version was 07-503. That version should have the current cut back to save the KLE right? If so, perhaps this is what I'm seeing. Maybe that plus cold temps is why it's estimating 9 hours to charge from empty on a Level 2 charger.

Ruffles said:

I asked my service manager about KLE issues since my car seems to be taking a long time to charge. He said, if I had a blown KLE, I'd know it because the dash would be lit up like a Christmas tree with all kinds of high voltage errors. Has that been everyone's experience? I had my key read by my local dealer and it said my I-Level HO is I001-14-07-503. It says New integration level available = true.

Does it sound like my car is up to date? The BMW i support told me the latest version was 07-503. That version should have the current cut back to save the KLE right? If so, perhaps this is what I'm seeing. Maybe that plus cold temps is why it's estimating 9 hours to charge from empty on a Level 2 charger.

Click to expand...

My first KLE literally went BANG and FIzzz... the only error I had was a charge error text to my mobile.

My second KLE went quietly in the night while parked up... with a charge error text aagin... when I went to the car at 3am it said 'drive train error... pull over'"....

But no christmas trees.