Class action lawsuit for i3 Rex owners in the nonCARB states

mindmachine said:

Crippling the capability of the REX is a sin in my book.

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Hi Mindmachine,

while I have to agree that US i3/REx's are much less useful than the EU version, and it's maddening that specs were altered during the introduction phase, the crippled but wonderful car that came out was made possible by those stupid rules it has to comply with... Hope you'll get somewhere exerting pressure.

Regards, Steven

Stevei3 said:

mindmachine said:

Crippling the capability of the REX is a sin in my book.

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Hi Mindmachine,

while I have to agree that US i3/REx's are much less useful than the EU version, and it's maddening that specs were altered during the introduction phase, the crippled but wonderful car that came out was made possible by those stupid rules it has to comply with... Hope you'll get somewhere exerting pressure.

Regards, Steven

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Thanks Steve, I still love the car anyway, it's just as a engineer myself it is hard to swallow the crippling aspect. For me the car is still quite usable, especially with my engineering understanding of what they did and how it works I can live with it and still enjoy the wonder-fullness of the overall package that is still there. it is still way far ahead of anything else available in the price category.

FWIW, regarding the sunroof, BMW tried to get the vehicle through indicating that the CFRP roof was stronger than the steel in a conventional car, and the current rules require there to be steel around the sunroof opening in the USA for support and protection from roll-over crush issues. The fact that the CFRP is stronger than a typical car didn't phase the rule-makers, and since the i3 does not have any steel in the roof, a sunroof is not legal in the USA. Personally, it doesn't really make sense to put more weight and add thickness and change the production process to add any - it makes more sense to try to get the rules changed. BMW had hoped to use the same reasoning for the use of the REx, but the way the rules are written, they couldn't, and as a fallback, on the sunroof, since they already had it as an option...easy, don't include it, on the REx, a smaller tank wasn't too bad of a quick fix as was a s/w tweak.

All of this may change, but I still do not see it as dangerous...a saw can cut your fingers off, but used properly, it is a safe tool. I do not see the i3 REx anywhere approaching the level of that...it's a fact.

If sudden loss of power without warning is not a safety issue, what is? A car need not self-destruct to be a "safety issue." We could quibble about the MAGNITUDE of the incremental safety risk, but I find it utterly disingenuous to claim that this is not a safety issue.

Talk to a non-gadget-nerd "Soccer mom" driving her kids around when the power loss occurs and ask her if the event reduced her safety.

As I've said before, AT A MINIMUM, BMW needs to communicate the impending power failure MUCH more prominently with visual and audio indications that the driver MUST pull over immediately (when safe) or suffer a dramatic loss of propulsion. It is reckless (and suspicious) that they did not think to add such a warning.

In all honesty, I was on the lookout for a power loss when ascending the hill in my case BUT WAS STILL SHAKEN by the experience. Did I fear for my life? Not really, but I am quite confident that my actuarial risk of harm was meaningfully elevated when cars going 2X my pace honked and swerved around me on this twisty road with no shoulders.

Your opinion is yours. That's a fact.

Chrisn said:

As I've said before, AT A MINIMUM, BMW needs to communicate the impending power failure MUCH more prominently with visual and audio indications that the driver MUST pull over immediately (when safe) or suffer a dramatic loss of propulsion. It is reckless (and suspicious) that they did not think to add such a warning.

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As a fellow engineer, I don't really understand how you fail to see approaching the clearly displayed near zero battery charge remaining as not communicating that you are about to loose full power. The remaining gasoline derived power can only maintain what little battery charge is left when the average discharge rate is no more than the engine generated power, which DOES cover most normal driving in a city.

For MOST driving conditions (not including extended high speeds or very long steep ascents), getting down to where the engine is needed is hardly constitutes a "MUST pull over immediately" or a "dramatic loss of propulsion." Rather, for nearly all cases, it is keep on going as you are, but be aware that you will need fuel or recharging pretty soon. I do agree with you that an indication of the engine start should be given. Perhaps a pleasant "vroom" chime, with some additional highlighting of the fuel gauge.

In all honesty, I was on the lookout for a power loss when ascending the hill in my case BUT WAS STILL SHAKEN by the experience.

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Have you never before been seriously startled and scared by something a new (to you) vehicle did that you were not expecting? Do you think you will ever be startled by your REX loosing power for the same reason ever again?

I think you might be more startled, given your expectations, if you had nearly discharged your SOC AND, then ran out of gas for the REx. It should not be a surprise, though.

mindmachine said:

acmik said:

No credits, no lawyers, no problem. Good old continental Europe.

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Whatever that is supposed to mean?

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Ask yourself... why is BMW complicating it's life by manufacturing a different car specification for US? Then call your representative, not a lawyer.... European version is so far OK.

acmik said:

mindmachine said:

acmik said:

No credits, no lawyers, no problem. Good old continental Europe.

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Whatever that is supposed to mean?

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Ask yourself... why is BMW complicating it's life by manufacturing a different car specification for US? Then call your representative, not a lawyer.... European version is so far OK.

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Exactly the European version is OK and that is what we want implemented here. Have you ever tried to get laws changed. When something is done contrary to what is morally correct and legally liable the court system is much faster and will get BMW's attention a lot quicker. Additionally it's almost impossible to lobby to get the system to change when you don't even live in the any of the states where it is implemented. Hence the title of this thread, non CARB states.

has anyone gotten any relief on this issue? It has happened to me several times while driving to the CVG airport which is just outside of my electric range on a full charge from Louisville. I have been doing over 70 on the highway and had the vehicle slow down to 46! I took a pic of it as it was happening and yes, it does scare the shit out of you, esp on the highway in traffic in a 70mph zone while getting passed on both sides. Definitely a white knuckle moment. If I have to I will buy a firmware update to allow hold state of charge, but this should simply be enabled as it is in the rest of the world. There is no reason to wait until 6% charge to kick on the ReX. It is a serious safety issue!

Dumb is often defined as doing the same thing and expecting different results...

KYsoldier said:

has anyone gotten any relief on this issue?

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The relief is to drive as the mega-city i3 was designed to drive which is under 70 mpg when the battery charge level is under 6% (i.e., with the REx engine is running). It should be no surprise that continuing to drive in a manner that is discharging the battery pack will eventually result in insufficient power to continue driving in that manner. The battery charge level display makes this situation very obvious, so it should not result in a dangerous surprise for drivers who pay attention.

If you're not willing to prevent discharging the battery pack, you could change or pay someone else to change the car's settings so that you could start the REx engine manually when the battery pack's charge level is as high as 75%. This would allow you to drive faster than 70 mph for considerably farther at your chosen speed, but only if you remember to manually turn on the REx engine early enough.

KYsoldier said:

has anyone gotten any relief on this issue? It has happened to me several times while driving to the CVG airport which is just outside of my electric range on a full charge from Louisville. I have been doing over 70 on the highway and had the vehicle slow down to 46! I took a pic of it as it was happening and yes, it does scare the shit out of you, esp on the highway in traffic in a 70mph zone while getting passed on both sides. Definitely a white knuckle moment. If I have to I will buy a firmware update to allow hold state of charge, but this should simply be enabled as it is in the rest of the world. There is no reason to wait until 6% charge to kick on the ReX. It is a serious safety issue!

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• 65 mph - the car holds its own, no problem.
• 70 mph - external conditions such as altitude and wind begin to play an effect
• >70 mph - the car will lose charge
• 75 mph - measured a 20% loss of SOC with every tank

You can avoid 46 mph by simply staying in the 65-70 mph range. In my case, http://www.dvdinmotion.com/ works. However when checking out a failed backup camera, the tech backed it out (or upgraded the software???)

If you don't want the code, just slow down when the REx first starts up until it warms up. Then resume at 65-70 mph ... or choose to risk "46!".

Bob Wilson

I was slowing down when the ReX kicked in. When in a 70mph highway zone, the reality is everyone is doing about 78, so anything less than that isn't even keeping up with the flow of traffic. I am not willing to concede that I should be driving 55 in a 70. People in the slow lane behind me (esp tractor trailers) would even be pissed off lol

Depending on the total length of the trip, regardless of when you start the REx, you can run into this situation if you persist in driving over 70mph, especially if there are any grades on the route. It appears that the maximum output of the REx was increased slightly for 2017, and you might be able to handle higher speeds for longer (discounting the larger battery which might be enough on its own). IMHO, if you expect to be going near 80mph for longer distances, you bought the wrong car. That is out of character for a city/commuter vehicle. You can break rocks with an 8-oz ball peen hammer, but a jackhammer works much better! The right tool for the task at hand.

jadnashuanh said:

It appears that the maximum output of the REx was increased slightly for 2017, and you might be able to handle higher speeds for longer (discounting the larger battery which might be enough on its own)..

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Do you have actual information from BMW about this? I keep seeing this however I have not seen any actual documentation on this. All I have seen points to the rex being the exact same. They only difference for the 2017 is access to the full 2.4 gal.

jadnashuanh said:

You can break rocks with an 8-oz ball peen hammer, but a jackhammer works much better! The right tool for the task at hand.

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Yeah, my Ferrari keeps damaging its sump when I go to get the sheep in from the mountain. Can I take out a lawsuit?