G8YTZ
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:50 pm

Went to the opening event at Tesla's new Gatwick sales and service centre on Thursday. Great to meet the team there who are so passionate and knowledgeable about their product, a lot like an Apple store. Had a chance to drive a Model S 85kW on some fast roads and fast it certainly is, very well screwed together too and the dual motor.... Can't wait!

But anyone spotted the small print of Tesla Motors new finance package and who's behind it?

"The financing information has been provided by BMW Financial Services (GB) Limited trading as Alphera Financial Services". Could that mean a Tesla powered BMW sometime soon?

Justin.

Surge
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:51 pm

FrancisJeffries wrote:I've had my Rex for less than a fortnight, done over 900 miles, and loving very mile. I have found that the Rex mileage and battery mileage estimates are woefully pessimistic. On motorways, 70-75mph (indicated) I am getting 90-95 miles on Rex, despite it saying that I'll get only 72 miles! It's much the same on battery.
It's changed my strategy on long-range use of the car, which is much better than I'd dared hope.
I'm going to post report on a 700-mile Rex trip on this forum soon to explain.


I'm sorry but there is just no way you can get 90-95 miles on battery power driving at 70-75mph (indicated). It's more like 60-65 miles.
I drove a REx for a few days and actually ran it constantly on the highway until the REx kicked in at 6% charge.
90-95 miles is completely wrong - maybe you meant traveling at varying speeds, but at a constant 70-75 (there's a big difference in that range too, btw), there's no way.
NOT- Soon to be ordered:
i3 • Lodge interior • Tech package • DC fast charge • gray or white

Surge
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:57 pm

G8YTZ wrote:Could that mean a Tesla powered BMW sometime soon?

Justin.


Why would you want such a car?

I am not at all impressed with the Model S. Clever packaging, yes, and they were first to market with a pure EV. But none of their tech is new or unique.

The i3 has way more unique IP than the Model S.

I will bet that the model S will sink into mediocrity (think Volt) when competition from BMW and others comes along. Can you say "i5"?

:)
NOT- Soon to be ordered:
i3 • Lodge interior • Tech package • DC fast charge • gray or white

ultraturtle
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:17 am
Location: Peachtree City, Georgia USA

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:49 am

Surge wrote:I'm sorry but there is just no way you can get 90-95 miles on battery power driving at 70-75mph (indicated)

Remember that he has a 2.4 gallon gas tank, which makes his mileage 37-38 mpg for 90-95 miles on REx which sounds about right. He didn't claim that range for battery, only that the indicated battery range is similarly pessimistic.

FrancisJeffries
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:47 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:48 am

Surge wrote:
I'm sorry but there is just no way you can get 90-95 miles on battery power driving at 70-75mph (indicated)

Remember that he has a 2.4 gallon gas tank, which makes his mileage 37-38 mpg for 90-95 miles on REx which sounds about right. He didn't claim that range for battery, only that the indicated battery range is similarly pessimistic.

Yes, that's right, ultraturtle. It's actually 9 litres - and 90 miles represents 10 miles/litre using Rex alone. That's 45.4 miles per Imperial gallon at motorway speeds. That's pretty good for real world motoring IMHO.

As an intriguing aside: having emptied the tank a few times I have found that brimming the fill requires a surprisingly variable numbers of litres! More than 10% variation, and wild horses won't draw the address and pump number of the best (i.e. the one that charges the least) I've found so far :twisted:
Perhaps we should start a thread comparing them in case there's another even better than the best I've found :lol:
Noteworthy cars I've owned previously: Lancia Aprilia ... 20kWh i3 Rex.

WoodlandHills
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:50 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:53 am

Sounds like a call to the Board of Weights and Measures is in order...... Every few years here in SoCal there is a high profile crackdown on fuel pumps that give short measures, it's funny how the pumps rarely break in a way that benefits the consumer :lol:
Clipper Creek HCS-40P 32a EVSE
2014 REx Arravani Grey Giga all options
2008 Infiniti EX35
2008 smart ForTwo Cabriolet
2000 F-250 Powerstroke
2006 Westfield eleven
1984 Laverda RGS-1000

FrancisJeffries
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:47 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:33 am

it's funny how the pumps rarely break in a way that benefits the consumer

...which is why I'm so pleased to have found one! :D
Noteworthy cars I've owned previously: Lancia Aprilia ... 20kWh i3 Rex.

G8YTZ
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:54 pm

ultraturtle wrote:
Surge wrote:I'm sorry but there is just no way you can get 90-95 miles on battery power driving at 70-75mph (indicated)

Remember that he has a 2.4 gallon gas tank, which makes his mileage 37-38 mpg for 90-95 miles on REx which sounds about right. He didn't claim that range for battery, only that the indicated battery range is similarly pessimistic.


Remember that the European i3's have a larger petrol tank....

Justin

Pavone
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:47 am

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:16 am

ecoangel wrote:"but the efficiency of conversion into traction is very poor in a combustion engine and gearbox when compared to a modern digital synchronous electric motor."

First of all I like EVs but (strange as it may seem) also enjoy historic motorsport and all forms of genuine eco technology. And NO I don't work for any oil companies, in fact I would like to see less dependency on fossil fuels and more renewable useage.

The claim that an EV is so much more efficient is, from an engineering standpoint, mostly bunk - it all depends of how that electricity was provided, overcoming the higher environmental impact of EV car production and dealing with weight disadvantages vrs conventional cars. Clearly BMW has gone some way to overcome some of the latter two with lighter car materials and lowered eco impact in Leipzig production, but very little of the i3 is locally sourced and 250kg is still a hefty "fuel tank" that looses capacity with time and recharge cycles.

It is one thing to compare a traditional Hybrid car with an ICE car but quite another to use a Plug In ICE or REX that claims huge MPG but ignores the energy used beyond the plug.

The key to efficiency is lightness and aerodynamics. This has been proven time an again in aerospace and in the Ansari X Prize to achieve over 100eMPG. This was won by Edison2 - with a very small ICE engine:

http://www.edison2.com/blog/month/december-2009

"neither the Leaf nor the Volt meet the performance, efficiency and emissions requirements of the X Prize"

The US EPA MPGe is plug (or for ICE pump) to wheels rather than power generation or oil drilling to wheels. This leads to poor comparisons in overall energy and pollution impacts.

A fairer comparison of energy transfer would be: electric motor vrs a wheel bearing or the final drive unit on an ICE gearbox. For a UK EV the power is produced at the power station which means mostly coal and then grid losses. Excluding the cost in energy terms of mining coal or shipping natural gas from Qatar, DEFRA stated the average UK generation CO2 to be 527g/kWh which has probably lowered very slightly with increased PV and wind-farm construction.

If you live in CA USA things are much better if you have your own Solar PV or use similar renewables like hydro or wind farms. Some states (like Hawaii) use petroleum to generate the electricity in the first place. The current UK and US fascination with Shale gas probably means we are not going for the most eco friendly options to create energy. And 10 years to build a nuclear power station uses a lot of energy before the plant is even operational.

What if China converted to 100% EVs?

"researchers from Tsinghua University (China) and Argonne National Laboratory (US) found that a large-scale conversion to EVs in China could actually increase carbon emissions, compared to internal combustion and hybrid drives. SO2 and NOx emissions also increase in China with increased use of electric vehicles, although the conversion would decrease the use of oil. Coal-based power dominates the Chinese electric grid, accounting for over 95% of electric generation in some regions and a large majority overall."

So technically EVs have several very long tailpipes - some much cleaner than others.

"A report by the UK Royal Academy of Engineering finds that in order for electric vehicles to have a big effect on climate change the grid in Britain needs to move away from coal towards non-carbon power sources, such as nuclear, wind and wave. As the report puts it, “EVs and PHEVs (plug-in hybrids) can only be as ‘green’ as the electricity used to charge their batteries.”

Some won't like this but it's worth a read:

http://m.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127 ... 2?mobile=y


very good points you raise there,

yes lithium mining and overall environm. cost of manuf. the vehicle is something most don't take into account

indeed with direct injection now on pretty much all petrol engines (at least in Eur.) and no DPF filter they may be less ecological than dir. inj. diesels with DPF

cars with petrol engines with no dir. inj. are (still) the most eco-friendly cars now (except on LPG, then they're even cleaner)

of course 4 clean air in the cities EVs are best

OVERALL hydrogen cars with hydrogen created at night from nuclear plants or solar/wind/hydro power must become most eco-friendly vehicle in the future

quite ironic
taxes and gov. legislation lead most people to dir.inj. petrol/diesel cars which are most polluting
cars that are least polluting, old petrol cars have become less interesting, also because of bonuses if you turn in the old car (that could still do plenty of miles) for recycling
i think: thanks to lobbyists from car industry ;)

ps
CO2 makes plants grow faster, CO2 doesn't have a considerable impact on climate, see Svensmark research for instance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1qGOUIRac0

RickysBMWi3
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:13 am

Re: What Range do you get with real world conditions?

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:18 am

If you charge at 240v level2, you get less range, try to leave the car charging overnight at Level 1 .... The faster the charge the lower the range...

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