Class action lawsuit for i3 Rex owners in the nonCARB states

We have been lied to about the capabilities of the i3 Rex after BMW decided to cripple it in order to get the maximum CARB tax credits. BMW has been greedy and have sacrificed safety in order to get the maximum tax credits for a BEVx when they (BMW) should have been satisfied with a PHEV rating and fewer credits. So they stole from us in my opinion, both financially and safety wise.
I think legal action might help us get the issue fixed/reversed at least in the non CARB states. Lets face it, had BMW not crippled the Rex in the USA, the car would be able to handle most if not all of the problems people have been reporting.

I ordered my car back in the late March early April time frame and back them on several occasions BMW USA officials were touting how the i3 Rex was so capable it could be driven across the continent without any issue other than stopping to fill up the 2.4 gallon tank.
Since then they reduced the size of the tank and messed with the SOC initiation point(originally 20%) so we not only can't engage it when needed for safe driving in hilly areas but run it down to 6.5% SOC before the rex can kick in. This is proving to be unsafe. The bad part is that people who live in non CARB states do not benefit in anyway for having their i3 REx crippled.

Any lawyers out there?

Loads of lawyers - and they all want your money :lol:

MikeS said:

Loads of lawyers - and they all want your money :lol:

Click to expand...

Many firms in the USA take on cases and and only get their money if they win and then it comes from the defendant who pays both the plaintiff and the lawyers :mrgreen: .

Not sure if I favor litigation, but note that: the harm to CA drivers is the same as in other states; only BMW (and not buyers) directly benefit from CARB credits; to the extent that BMW i3 pricing strategy is linked to credits (I don't think it is) then non-CA buyers are free-riding off the CA credits and should not bite the hand that feeds; and I don't think any manufacturers build CA-specif cars so good luck with a fix that doesn't apply in 50 states.

Although perhaps there is a case to be made for fraud/false advertising about the capabilities of the car (which could be solved with better disclosure). But I think the more potent objections are the safety problems: sudden loss of power without warning.

Chrisn said:

Not sure if I favor litigation, but note that: the harm to CA drivers is the same as in other states; only BMW (and not buyers) directly benefit from CARB credits; to the extent that BMW i3 pricing strategy is linked to credits (I don't think it is) then non-CA buyers are free-riding off the CA credits and should not bite the hand that feeds; and I don't think any manufacturers build CA-specif cars so good luck with a fix that doesn't apply in 50 states.

Although perhaps there is a case to be made for fraud/false advertising about the capabilities of the car (which could be solved with better disclosure). But I think the more potent objections are the safety problems: sudden loss of power without warning.

Click to expand...

For me it's the safety and being lied too and I put down a non refundable deposit before all these things got changed.
I personally don't think BMW will fix it without litigation. Maybe we should complain to the national highway safety council.

mindmachine said:

Maybe we should complain to the national highway safety council.

Click to expand...

Some already have. Here's the link:

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

I'm not a dyed in the wool BMW fan, so not biased towards them. When I see that emotive word 'greed' appearing I'm bound to think that before anybody behaves in a particular way to get something, somebody has got to have given them the incentive. In this case it appears to have been the relevant part of US or state Govt that has offered them a carrot and they've taken it.

Where and how do you draw a line between an entrepreneur (individual or corporate) trying to make most profit within the law (without artificial structures) and greed?

The only certain winners will be the lawyers.

RJSATLBA said:

Where and how do you draw a line between an entrepreneur (individual or corporate) trying to make most profit within the law (without artificial structures) and greed?

Click to expand...

Profit maximization is good in general. "Greed" generally connotes improper (even if legal) profit maximization, which is a subjective assessment (as to the propriety). Transparency should allow consumers to make informed choices if they object to "greed."

I think it was improper for BMW to conceal/obfuscate the extent of the crippling it agreed to in pursuit of profit.

On top of that, I think the product as delivered in the US has a serious safety issue. Was this motivated by "greed?" I think so, but that's not what bothers me.

If it did not take away any capability then it would not be a big deal, but it will most certainly reduce the functionality of the car. It will also reduce resale values down the road unless we can get BMW to fix it.

There could have been a CARB version with the reduced capability and a non CARB version like they sell in the UK.

Apparently many people have lost their moral compass, this is GREED plain and simple to cripple the capability of this car was in BMW's best interest financially and competitively as well in CARB states. Something was stolen from those of us in non CARB states, namely safety of operation, functionality and versatility. If I had the European version and it still had problems it would be different, but reading about how customers over there can use their cars is vastly different then the way we have been hamstrung by this travesty here.

BMW engineers knew what the result would be if they crippled the Rex to this extent, but they did it anyway, then hid it from the customers over here as best they could.

Plus there are many like me who put down a non refundable deposit before finding out the car specks were going to change in the interest of meeting BEVx CARB rules. I again say GREED, BMW could have listed it as a PHEV and settled for fewer credits and left the capability of the REX untouched.

It's not about the money with me, I would be willing to pay a $1000 more to have a fully functioning REX.

As for me, I am genuinely pleased with my i3 REx. The reduced fuel tank was a shocker when we learned about it, but anyone familiar with this blog got to know about it well during all the discussion over the smaller tank. I am surprised to learn that you had to put down a nonrefundable deposit. My deposit was refundable as was my son's. My son decided not to get the i3 and got his deposit back no questions asked. My REx is performing just as advertised--it is a backup to the electric battery. I have only had my vehicle for about three weeks and just crossed the 500 mile mark. I've done three trips each around 85 miles and the REx kicked in seamlessly and quietly as I neared the end of my trip doing what it was designed to do, giving me that little bit of extra flexibility sans the worry. I live in Southern California and will travel this week on a business trip from north Orange County to San Diego and back. Its a longer trip than I've taken but I have no worries (and will try out the new EvGO fast charger unit installed in Fashion Valley). America is awash in class action suits. Some are legitimate but most in my view are less than credible, and a suit again BMW for the reduced size of its REx tank given all the information we had about it is less than credible. Do I wish the REx tank was larger--of course. Do I hope BMW does something about this in the future--of course. Am I happy with my i3 REx--absolutely.

drb said:

As for me, I am genuinely pleased with my i3 REx. The reduced fuel tank was a shocker when we learned about it, but anyone familiar with this blog got to know about it well during all the discussion over the smaller tank. I am surprised to learn that you had to put down a nonrefundable deposit. My deposit was refundable as was my son's. My son decided not to get the i3 and got his deposit back no questions asked. My REx is performing just as advertised--it is a backup to the electric battery. I have only had my vehicle for about three weeks and just crossed the 500 mile mark. I've done three trips each around 85 miles and the REx kicked in seamlessly and quietly as I neared the end of my trip doing what it was designed to do, giving me that little bit of extra flexibility sans the worry. I live in Southern California and will travel this week on a business trip from north Orange County to San Diego and back. Its a longer trip than I've taken but I have no worries (and will try out the new EvGO fast charger unit installed in Fashion Valley). America is awash in class action suits. Some are legitimate but most in my view are less than credible, and a suit again BMW for the reduced size of its REx tank given all the information we had about it is less than credible. Do I wish the REx tank was larger--of course. Do I hope BMW does something about this in the future--of course. Am I happy with my i3 REx--absolutely.

Click to expand...

It is not the reduced gas tank that is at issue with me, it is the Auto rex not kicking in until the SOC is at 6.5% instead of the original 20% and not being able to manually use the rex at anything below 80% SOC as they can do in the UK and EU. The safety issue is specific to the very low SOC of 6.5% that is the biggest issue. If we could at least get that up to say 20 or 30% we would be a lot better off safety wise. I also suspect it would be better for battery life too.

The SOC issue changed after I placed my deposit, the gas tank is a minor problem compared to the SOC auto rex point.

mind machine said:

... there are many like me who put down a non refundable deposit before finding out the car specks were going to change in the interest of meeting BEVx CARB rules.

Click to expand...

Your deposit was refundable. It was put down on one car, but another car was substituted, one with different specs. That would be reason enough to get your deposit back.

RJSATLBA said:

I'm not a dyed in the wool BMW fan, so not biased towards them. When I see that emotive word 'greed' appearing I'm bound to think that before anybody behaves in a particular way to get something, somebody has got to have given them the incentive. In this case it appears to have been the relevant part of US or state Govt that has offered them a carrot and they've taken it.

Where and how do you draw a line between an entrepreneur (individual or corporate) trying to make most profit within the law (without artificial structures) and greed?

The only certain winners will be the lawyers.

Click to expand...

As a fellow Brit, I am ashamed of you.
We have enough bankers in the UK for everybody to know what GREED is.
It has nothing to do with truth or common sense.

Mindmachine, we all knew fairly early in the game that the REx would not be manual as in Europe and that it would turn on automatically when the battery was fairly well exhausted. The discussion of this was so frequent that it was hard to miss if you are a regular reader of this blog and I believe you are. So, instead of trying to sue BMW, let us work with the company in the spirit of making even better a great car. As for me, knowing the limitations of the REx, I plan my routes and my charge so that I know I can maintain highway speed or climb a hill. This is all part of learning to drive differently and efficiently in a different but exciting new car. The i3 is so much fun to drive in part because it makes us a participant in the driving experience. Mindmachine, don't sue--enjoy.

drb said:

Mindmachine, we all knew fairly early in the game that the REx would not be manual as in Europe and that it would turn on automatically when the battery was fairly well exhausted. The discussion of this was so frequent that it was hard to miss if you are a regular reader of this blog and I believe you are. So, instead of trying to sue BMW, let us work with the company in the spirit of making even better a great car. As for me, knowing the limitations of the REx, I plan my routes and my charge so that I know I can maintain highway speed or climb a hill. This is all part of learning to drive differently and efficiently in a different but exciting new car. The i3 is so much fun to drive in part because it makes us a participant in the driving experience. Mindmachine, don't sue--enjoy.

Click to expand...

Yes I agree to some extent, but the original turn on point was 20% SOC which would make a lot of difference with the safety issue we now have. I am not going to start legal action myself, but would encourage it if a legal firm were willing to take the case. This is a rip off by BMW to those of us who live in non CARB states, oh and all of Canada too. The only way this is going to be fixed is when someone dies because of the ill thought BEVx CARB game they played instead of just settling for a PHEV rating. The safety of the low auto REx point of 6.5% SOC just isn't sufficient, it needs, no it must be fixed or people are going to have accidents related to it and someone or even several people will die. Then BMW will have a bigger problem.

Again I love the car and the concept, it just was bastardized too much in the interest of greed for CARB credits. Either they should fix it or we should be compensated for the theft of functionality.

Back in late March and early April when I put down my (non refundable) deposit, little was out about the additional de-rating of the REx functionality. Yes we knew we would not be able to engage it manually. But on this forum talk about how that would impact drive ability and the lower auto rex point wasn't even know in detail and was being put down as a non event. Most everything I read at the time involved people saying the rex was perfectly capable in europe and BMW officials for BMW NA were publicly stating that the REx was capable of driving across the USA if you were willing to make frequent gasoline stops. Questions were raised about mountainous driving conditions and statements were made that there should not be any issues. We now know those were lies.

A bigger deal back when i placed my order was the sun roof, which we are not getting even though we are paying for it. The sunroof was still on the USA web site when I built my own and the price I paid included the sunroof. Guess what the price was not lowered.
Then the SOC auto rex discussion started to pick up steam in late April and the gas tank size reduction followed, adding insult to injury. Are you beginning to see a trend here. BMW was scrambling to save their precious CARB credits, the hell with our other customers who don't get anything out of the CARB programs in the various states. The old robbing Peter to pay Paul concept.

I am really surprised at all you educated people who keep saying be happy. Oh they took the sunroof option away, oh well be happy! Guess what they won't let us turn on the Rex manually in the USA, oh well that's not a big deal it will still run when needed. Oh did you know they reduced the SOC auto Rex point to 6.5%, so what, BMW NA says you can drive it anywhere and even across the USA. Guess what they just reduced the size of the gas tank for the Rex, ho my really don't worry be happy!
I guess many out there are asleep as to what is going on here, there are legal issues here. There is no reason why there couldn't have been two versions of the REX, one for CARB states and one for the rest of NA including Canada. I personally would be willing to pay $ 1000 more for a non CARB full functioning with manual Rex turn on i3 Rex. But I suggest you suck it up and be happy with your crippled Rex and relish the thought about how you are subsidizing the people who purchase a BMW gas guzzler in the CARB states.
Oh I forgot you are also subsidizing people in some CARB states with additional tax breaks that you don't get.

Lets face it, these issues were poorly handled by BMW, they were dished out like Chinese water torture. Customers were left groping for any shred of information and there was way more disinformation then truth presented. Facts about the true impact of the d-rated
Rex were not truthfully reported by BMW and we only started learning how much damage was done after people started reporting on their actual experiences here in the US.

mindmachine said:

The only way this is going to be fixed is when someone dies because of the ill thought BEVx CARB game they played instead of just settling for a PHEV rating.

Click to expand...

Yes, living here in a state with lots of mountain passes, we are bombarded daily with the plethora of deaths from slow moving vehicles on these mountains. NOT!!!! It may happen. It is not likely. I hear of plenty of accidents from vehicles descending a mountain, but hardly ever from an ascent. You are screaming at a windmill.

A bigger deal back when i placed my order was the sun roof, which we are not getting even though we are paying for it.

Click to expand...

If the sunroof was an extra cost option you selected, you have a valid complaint. If you tried to get your deposit back because of a significant change in specification, but was refused, then you have a valid complaint. Otherwise, you seem to be desperate for problems to exaggerate and complain about.

Lets face it, these issues were poorly handled by BMW, they were dished out like Chinese water torture. Customers were left groping for any shred of information and there was way more disinformation then truth presented.

Click to expand...

It might make your case stronger if you could separate out what BMW told you, from what BMW was telling customers in other countries, from what you got from the rumor mills. It seems a bunch of disparate info has been blended together here in your rants.

You are upset. Last time a vehicle upset me so terribly, I got rid of it fairly quickly. Screaming at windmills is fun for awhile, but wholly unproductive and it leads to more irrational anger. I don't mean to denigrate or dispute the loss you perceive from your REX, but I certainly disparage the means you choose to deal with it.

i3Alan said:

mindmachine said:

The only way this is going to be fixed is when someone dies because of the ill thought BEVx CARB game they played instead of just settling for a PHEV rating.

Click to expand...

Yes, living here in a state with lots of mountain passes, we are bombarded daily with the plethora of deaths from slow moving vehicles on these mountains. NOT!!!! It may happen. It is not likely. I hear of plenty of accidents from vehicles descending a mountain, but hardly ever from an ascent. You are screaming at a windmill.

A bigger deal back when i placed my order was the sun roof, which we are not getting even though we are paying for it.

Click to expand...

If the sunroof was an extra cost option you selected, you have a valid complaint. If you tried to get your deposit back because of a significant change in specification, but was refused, then you have a valid complaint. Otherwise, you seem to be desperate for problems to exaggerate and complain about.

Lets face it, these issues were poorly handled by BMW, they were dished out like Chinese water torture. Customers were left groping for any shred of information and there was way more disinformation then truth presented.

Click to expand...

It might make your case stronger if you could separate out what BMW told you, from what BMW was telling customers in other countries, from what you got from the rumor mills. It seems a bunch of disparate info has been blended together here in your rants.

You are upset. Last time a vehicle upset me so terribly, I got rid of it fairly quickly. Screaming at windmills is fun for awhile, but wholly unproductive and it leads to more irrational anger. I don't mean to denigrate or dispute the loss you perceive from your REX, but I certainly disparage the means you choose to deal with it.

Click to expand...

I reject your assertion about me exaggerating the issues and I certainly am not desperate or irrational about anything related to this issue. Don't want my money back either. Still love the car and would do it again and I am not upset just just disgruntled when the capabilities of a highly technically device are compromised in the interest of socialism. Oh and yes the sunroof was included in the Tera price I paid and that price was never reduced by BMW, it still is the same on BMW US web site as it was when the sunroof was included.

Bury your head in the sand all you want and let them pull the wool over your eyes. I am not fooled about corporate greed as I worked for a large corporation in a division of 2500 employees and I reported directly to the president of the company for a few years. I saw first hand on many occasions over my career how corporate greed is the key element of money decisions, instead of doing the right thing morally. I was in the engineering department where we specified and purchased capital equipment. The people at BMW corporate decision making levels crippled the i3 Rex intentionally when it wasn't necessary. More than likely in the interest of their bonuses, raises and meeting financial goals (CARB) where engineering missed their target due to design errors. Their goal was the BEVx rating in CARB states and the goal included money as a basis for their fervor in achieving that goal even at the cost of crippling the vehicle functionality. That is what I find upsetting. It's still a great vehicle and there is nothing out there at this time to compare to it.

And you can say all you want about it not being a safety issue, but if you have ever been stopped on a highway or had to slow way down without warning with a car that wont keep up or starts cutting out and 18 wheelers are whizzing by at high speed, then try it sometime and tell me how safe you feel. Weather you have seen or heard of any fatalities or not, in my state there have been deaths associated with this type of issue. I am not talking about going slow up a mountain, I agree that is safer than having to slow or pull over on a moderately hilly interstate. We have even had highway police killed on the interstate due to cars being slammed into when pulling over on the interstate.

I would not dream of getting rid of the i3, I really love it and as the owner of another plugin hybrid I fully understand it's limitations and will not be putting myself at risk by using it improperly. Once again what I am mad about is the way it was down graded here in North America when it was not necessary. The Rex was bastardized in the name of greed and in the end that is going to cost Rex owners with lower resale values as the word gets around the used car market about these limitations. BMW stole value from it's REX customers in the USA!

Purity in engineering and the pursuit of perfection apparently is not BMW's goal for it's customers.

Yes I am passionate about engineering issues and I reject comprising capability in the name of greed or any other factors. Crippling the capability of the REX is a sin in my book.

Yes I still love the car and would buy it over again knowing what I know now as nothing on the planet compares to it at this time!!!!

I am retired and I went ahead instead of waiting a year or two because life is fleeting at best and I/you never know how much time you have left.

No credits, no lawyers, no problem. Good old continental Europe.

acmik said:

No credits, no lawyers, no problem. Good old continental Europe.

Click to expand...

Whatever that is supposed to mean?