protonic
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:52 pm

Tesla Charging stations

Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:15 am

I'm a new i3 owner and have a question about Tesla charging stations. I see that you can buy Tesla adapters and have read on forums about people using these stations. I'm wondering if anyone has ever gotten any crap from Tesla owners or maybe Tesla charging station maintenance people? The Tesla stations around here have many "pumps" so I can't imagine people would care. But I could see Tesla owners saying something "I have 3 friends with Teslas, LOL).

I haven't driven up to a Tesla station before. Is there a sign or policy that indicates these are for Teslas only. I suppose the huge Tesla signs might imply this.

alohart
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:19 pm

protonic wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:15 am
I'm a new i3 owner and have a question about Tesla charging stations. I see that you can buy Tesla adapters and have read on forums about people using these stations. I'm wondering if anyone has ever gotten any crap from Tesla owners or maybe Tesla charging station maintenance people? The Tesla stations around here have many "pumps" so I can't imagine people would care. But I could see Tesla owners saying something "I have 3 friends with Teslas, LOL).

I haven't driven up to a Tesla station before. Is there a sign or policy that indicates these are for Teslas only. I suppose the huge Tesla signs might imply this.
The adapter that you're referencing allows any EV to connect to an AC Level 2 Tesla EVSE but not to a DC Tesla Supercharger that you're referencing. Some hotels have AC Level 2 Tesla Destination Chargers that you could use with the adapter. However, the Tesla Supercharger sites with many red and white charging stations can charge only Tesla vehicles. Tesla Superchargers use a proprietary charging protocol that isn't implemented by any other EV which prevents charging from occurring even if an adapter allowed a physical connection to be made.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

jadnashuanh
Posts: 5037
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:16 pm

IOW, Tesla makes adapters for TESLA cars to be able to charge elsewhere, but Tesla (currently) does not allow ANY other brand to charge at their superchargers. Way back when, that was discussed, but nothing came of it.

So, for DC charging, there are three protocols, with different plugs, and not universally exchangeable:
- TESLA
- CCS (the system most of the world uses except for Japanese vehicles)
- CHADeMO

The i3 can only use CCS fast charging stations.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV
Soon (hopefully!) A 2021 X5 45e will replace the above

protonic
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:52 pm

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:19 pm

Oh, the salesman gave me incorrect information. Not surprising I suppose. He also told me I should go with a 2018 (was looking at a 2017 ) to go with the bigger battery.

alohart
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:47 pm

protonic wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:19 pm
Oh, the salesman gave me incorrect information. Not surprising I suppose. He also told me I should go with a 2018 (was looking at a 2017 ) to go with the bigger battery.
Almost all 2017 U.S. i3's have the same 94 Ah battery pack capacity as the 2018 models. However, the 2018 model is refreshed with new features, a slightly different appearance, etc., making it more desirable.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

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MKH
Gold Member
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:48 am
Location: Dallas

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:36 am

Adding to the info posted - the Tesla level 2 Destination chargers have two different (internal) settings. 1) Tesla Only, 2) Legacy. If a Hotel, etc. has only one Tesla Destination Charge station, it will usually (not always) be set to Tesla Only, and even with an adapter, a non-Tesla EV will not be able to complete the software 'handshake' and will not charge. If the site has two (or more) Tesla Destination charge stations, usually (not always) one of the two (half the stations) will be set to legacy mode, and allow any EV to charge, with an adapter, at those.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

3pete
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:20 pm

MKH wrote:Tesla level 2 Destination chargers have two different (internal) settings. 1) Tesla Only, 2) Legacy.
This is interesting. I didn't realize those "Tesla to J1772" adapters may not work with all destination chargers (I didn't realize the destination chargers had different settings).

It does make sense with something I read recently: Tesla is going to allow Destination Charger 'owners' to start charging a fee for the electricity and just like superchargers, the payment is authenticated through the car/ Tesla account. That greatly streamlines the process, but seems like it would prevent any non-Tesla vehicles from using them (even if they were willing to pay). I wonder if this new "feature" will only be available on Gen 3 wall connector, or if the settings on the previous ones also allow the necessary communication/authentication to enable it. If so, it may become tricky for Jdapter owners to know which Tesla wall connectors they can actually use or not.

jadnashuanh
Posts: 5037
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:42 pm

At a supercharger, there's digital communications between the car and the system, so that they can determine if the car is authorized, and if they need to charge them for the electricity. But, any Tesla vehicle (assuming their account info is correct) should be able to plug in and charge.

The CCS standard does not have a two-way digital communications system. It does pass information on what the car wants to the unit, but there's no logic to determine the vehicle ID or type. Typically, you'd use your credit card or an RFID card to tell the unit who you are, and the account information, but the car itself, does not do it.

Now, if and when V2G stuff ever gets worked out, there may be some more communications going on between the two, but not now.

I'm not that familiar with the CHADeMO protocol...but, for the most part, BMW isn't involved (maybe in Japanese delivered vehicles?).
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV
Soon (hopefully!) A 2021 X5 45e will replace the above

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MKH
Gold Member
Posts: 638
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:48 am
Location: Dallas

Re: Tesla Charging stations

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:16 am

The Tesla Destination Chargers have an internal DIP switch that sets the communication protocol it uses. Either set to SWCAN - which is Tesla's proprietary com protocol (used in the Tesla SuperChargers), or set to the J1772/CCS protocol which is the North American standard. Since a Tesla 'speaks' both SWCAN and J1772/CCS, it doesn't matter to a Tesla which DIP switch setting the Tesla Destination Charger is using. Apparently the logic behind the DIP switch was that if the charge station was installed for home charging, there might be 'other' EVs in the household that then could also use the Tesla charger. On the road, the minor problem with the Tesla Destination Chargers is, since it is just a DIP switch, it may not be set 'correctly' during install, or subsequent service of the station. However, since the Tesla Destination Stations appear to be clearly marked either 'Tesla Only", or "Any EV" (see below), even if some Tesla driver gets huffy about a non Tesla EV charging up at a Tesla Destination Charger, it can be pointed out that Tesla makes that particularly marked charge station available to any EV.

From Tesla:
Tesla Destination Chargers
These are like other destination chargers although they can often be 3 phase which gives a charging boost. They also sometimes load share where one charger will deliver as much as it can, but if two chargers are in use, the power supply may be split so that both cars can charge. They are also tethered so you don't need a cable. These tend to be found at hotels, restaurants, and other places where you might want to visit and if you are reliant on the charger you should ring ahead to check access, many places require you to use their facilities although they may offer the charging for free in return. Look out for the signs behind the chargers, those with a red background are for Tesla cars only, the white background are suitable for any car that can take a Type 2 cable. It's not uncommon for people to be confused over whether non Tesla's can charge at a Tesla charger, the only time it works is on a Tesla Destination Charger with a white background or a Tesla home charger. *note that this description from Tesla was provided by a UK user, but may be able to assume similar for USA.
Tesla D.jpg
Tesla D.jpg (55.41 KiB) Viewed 308 times
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

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