BMW: dont try to fix whoop-whoop with new parts

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WoodlandHills

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
751
Location
SoCal
I heard from BMW via my dealer today and it was not good news.

BMW are aware of the issue, they know it affects certain cars, and there is no fix at this time. They directly instructed my dealer NOT to replace any parts in an attempt to fix this. BMW further state that when parts have been replaced and the sound has gone away, it has returned later.

My dealer said that when they asked BMW why this affects some cars and not others they had no response. I have asked that when the dealer meets with BMW later today and when they contact Bridgestone that they ascertain if the problem is confined to cars with 20" wheels and tires.

Under CA law I have to have the vehicle into the dealer 4 times for the same issue before I have a claim so I am going to check my old service orders to see if I mentioned the whoop-whoop on previous visits to the dealer. If not then I will be bringing it back 3 more times ASAP in hopes of getting a replacement i3, one that does not sound like I am driving Curley from the Stooges home.
 
So what actually causes this i have never heard any strange noises from mine is it tyres road surface or something else.
 
busaman said:
So what actually causes this i have never heard any strange noises from mine is it tyres road surface or something else.

My understanding is this is due to a design issue with the 20" tires. I also read where Bridgestone is addressing this in later production of the tires.

In my opinion, seeking redress for this relatively minor issue under the "lemon law", and expecting a replacement car because of tire noise, would be inapproprite and against the spirit of the CA code provisions...
 
According to BMW, your understanding (and mine) is incorrect. BMW say that the problem is not wheels or tires, they say that when wheels and tires from a quiet car are swapped with those of a noisy one the noise does NOT follow the "noisy" tires. They also say that when wheels, tires, and even wheel bearings are replaced the noise will either be unaffected or it will go away and then return later.

BMW also say that they have no idea of the cause of this noise, but that they admit that it exists. In my case it is loud enough that pedestrians are constantly turning to look as I go by, i.e. it is that loud! If your car was so noisy that people get whiplash turning to look as you pass by, was so loud that that the noise drowned out the radio as low speeds, and BMW said that you just had to live with it, what would you do? Grin and bear it?

BMWs attitude is that this is a chassis problem, not wheels or tires, but they have no idea what the cause might be and thus no solution. Which is just plain wrong. How can they fail to stand behind their product? Why do a segment of i3 buyers have to have a car that is two or three times as loud as identical cars made at a later date? It defeats part of the reason for buying an EV: the quiet!

The i3 that we test drove for 3 days was dead silent on smooth roads. When we first got our own i3 the sound was noticeable, but only on smooth quiet pavement. And if you look back at earlier posts on this subject, I thought it was kind of cool sounding when we first got the i3. But as the months went on and especially since most of the streets in my part of LA got paved this spring, it has become horribly annoying. IMHO, it is growing louder as the car ages and the miles slowly pile up. I also strongly believe that as the road speeds increase and the rhythmic howl blends into a drone the overall noise level is also higher than in i3s that do not have this issue. In other words, this is degrading the owner experience under all conditions.

What if your new car was delivered with no soundproofing and you were told that the maker had no idea how it happened, but that you were stuck since they don't know how to install it after the car was built. You just were told to live with a noisy car until your lease ran out in 2.5 more years. What would be your response? Would you violate the "spirit" of the Lemon Law to get some sort of redress?
 
The 20" wheels and tires must be involved in some way because no i3's with 19" wheels and tires are afflicted. I suppose there might be some sort of harmonic resonance triggered by the 20" wheels and tires but not by 19" wheels and tires. One fix that BMW seems loath to offer is replacing the 20" with 19" wheels and tires with the appropriate credit being given to the customer. If a customer refused that solution, then the customer should have to live with the sound.
 
alohart said:
The 20" wheels and tires must be involved in some way because no i3's with 19" wheels and tires are afflicted. I suppose there might be some sort of harmonic resonance triggered by the 20" wheels and tires but not by 19" wheels and tires. One fix that BMW seems loath to offer is replacing the 20" with 19" wheels and tires with the appropriate credit being given to the customer. If a customer refused that solution, then the customer should have to live with the sound.

That's not exactly correct - it's the EP500s that are affected, in either size. There's an owner on this forum from Europe who had the noise with his 19" EP500s, and BMW resolved the noise issue by swapping for a new set of EP500s.

Of course, in the US, the 19" wheels only come with the all season EP600s from the factory, so we see no reports of the noise with 19" wheel/tires.
 
SO rather than return car and have a lemon law issue, isn't it easier to just swap out the 20" tires for the 19" wheels and tires? Seems simple solution to me? Why not suggest it to dealer and BMW???

My car is silent on the 19" rims and tires on all surfaces.
 
NoMoreGas said:
SO rather than return car and have a lemon law issue, isn't it easier to just swap out the 20" tires for the 19" wheels and tires? Seems simple solution to me? Why not suggest it to dealer and BMW???

My car is silent on the 19" rims and tires on all surfaces.


It has been suggested to the dealer, but BMW claim that the problem is NOT tires or wheels. There is little I can do if BMW refuse to replace any parts to fix this, can give no timeline for a solution and admit that they do not know the cause. What would be YOUR next step?
 
Woodlandhills, there are people on this forum that actually want the 20" wheels. Why not trade them? I have the 19" wheels that have proven to be silent in all situations. Problem solved.
 
My car is leased...... What do I do at the end of the lease when I do not have the 20s to reinstall?

Also, if I trade my wheels and tires should I tell the other party that these are defective and that they will give their car the whoops? If I do will anyone want them? This is a big mess!
 
I spoke with my dealer today and he says that the Bridgestone engineer he contacted told him that this was the first time they had heard of such a thing! My dealer contact described the Bridgestone guy as a technical engineer, not someone from the complaint department. He also said that if Bridgestone was aware of problems in another market Bridgestone USA would not know about it.
The next step is to bring a new i3 in with 19" wheels and swap tires. This will take another day since their 19" car is in the storage facility...... If this fails, I guess there is not much hope for a fix. All that I can do then is try to get another car or some sort of adjustment.
It gets complicated since this is a lease and the diminished resale value of a noisy car does not matter. If there were two i3s for sale and one went whoop-whoop and the other did not, then the noisy one would need a lower price to sell compared with the quiet one. Unfortunately, I paid full price for the noisy one!
I also have initiated an contact/complaint with Bridgestone for having defective tires as regarding NVH and the rep took my phone number so an engineer could contact me.
 
WoodlandHills said:
I spoke with my dealer today and he says that the Bridgestone engineer he contacted told him that this was the first time they had heard of such a thing! My dealer contact described the Bridgestone guy as a technical engineer, not someone from the complaint department. He also said that if Bridgestone was aware of problems in another market Bridgestone USA would not know about it.
The next step is to bring a new i3 in with 19" wheels and swap tires. This will take another day since their 19" car is in the storage facility...... If this fails, I guess there is not much hope for a fix. All that I can do then is try to get another car or some sort of adjustment.
It gets complicated since this is a lease and the diminished resale value of a noisy car does not matter. If there were two i3s for sale and one went whoop-whoop and the other did not, then the noisy one would need a lower price to sell compared with the quiet one. Unfortunately, I paid full price for the noisy one!
I also have initiated an contact/complaint with Bridgestone for having defective tires as regarding NVH and the rep took my phone number so an engineer could contact me.


Is there any way you could play a sound clip? My i3 was sold as a 19" car but I quickly noticed that it had 20" wheels installed. I actually wanted the 19" wheels for the comfort/cost, but didn't complain about it. It does make a whooshing noise under acceleration but I assumed that was the artificial noise generator. I plan on buying a set of winter wheels/tires this fall and seeing if I notice a difference. "Too bad" you don't need winter tires in Southern California.
 
I was planning on making a recording as soon as I get my car back from the dealer. If it hasnt been fixed that is!

One problem has been that the noise is clearest when the pavement is very smooth thus removing the sound of the tires passing over a coarse surface from the mix. Another problem is that where my dealer is located all the streets are on a grid system with no curves, I live about 10 miles away in the hills where all the streets curve and most are recently repaved. I suspect that the dealerships inability to actually test drive on roads that exacerbate the problem and that are closest to what I actually drive on myself is not helping to diagnose the cause.
 
PDXelectric said:
It does make a whooshing noise under acceleration but I assumed that was the artificial noise generator.
Unlike some other EV's, the i3 has no artificial noise generator. However, one can hear the electric motor/electronics whine a bit when accelerating briskly or even when regenerating.
 
alohart said:
Unlike some other EV's, the i3 has no artificial noise generator. However, one can hear the electric motor/electronics whine a bit when accelerating briskly or even when regenerating.

This is true in the USA where BMW does not offer the pedestrian warning system, but then, it's not just a typical car noise, it is a warning noise and only works when the car is going below a certain speed, then turns itself off once you get moving. I'd assume the reason for that is that tire noises would then be sufficient to warn anyone of your approach.
 
alohart said:
PDXelectric said:
It does make a whooshing noise under acceleration but I assumed that was the artificial noise generator.
Unlike some other EV's, the i3 has no artificial noise generator. However, one can hear the electric motor/electronics whine a bit when accelerating briskly or even when regenerating.

I believe the noise generator is an option. Certainly in Europe.
 
Gonville said:
I believe the noise generator is an option. Certainly in Europe.
When we bought our i3 in November, 2014, I was surprised that it had no noise generator (a.k.a., pedestrian warning system - PWS) since our 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV had a rather irritating PWS that could not be turned off manually and that operated automatically below 30 kph. I'm opposed to adding more noise to our noisy environment and would rather have a manually-operated PWS that could be activated when necessary. I'm happy that our i3 doesn't generate artificial noise. It's too bad that some i3 owners have whoop-whoop noise generators.
 
In their wisdom the European Paliament has passed legislation to require EV to have noise generators by 201? . This is in response to widespread reports of pedestrians being run down by silent killers. There are to the best of my knowledge no reported cases of injury as a result of silent cars and it is possible that this is a tactic to suppress the sales of EVs. That is a conspiracy theory of course. A fine case of evidence based legislation. Not.

Maybe the whoop whoop will count.
 
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