BMW may have to up the ante soon...
- Thread starter gmer
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jadnashuanh
Well-known member
The Model X was projected to cost much less than it does, and be ready much sooner than it (may) be. We'll see how this plays out. Right now, he's losing money on each car sold...that can't go on forever even though he is a billionaire.
gmer said:
But Production Still 2 Years Away
(they claim) Has Tesla ever manufactured their cars according to the original release date?
I'm all for Tesla upping the ante. Let them produce an i3 competitor with better efficiency and better range. Cheaper too!
Let's not hold our breaths on this...
justanotherdrunk
Well-known member
Not a Tesla fan because of how they look. period.
Styling is by far the largest contributor to my vehicle choices.
For me to buy a Tesla it must:
be a 2 door coupe (hate 4 door sedans)
not be too big (never understood why people want giant vehicles)
have edgy, modern styling (the current Teslas are fugly)
Notice that:
Price
Range
Perceived reliability
are not contributors
Oh, btw ...
I just rented a car for a month and drove 9200 miles/ 34 states, every border/ perimeter state just for fun.
I saw precisely 0 Teslas outside CA
Lots of pickup trucks and American cars.
Styling is by far the largest contributor to my vehicle choices.
For me to buy a Tesla it must:
be a 2 door coupe (hate 4 door sedans)
not be too big (never understood why people want giant vehicles)
have edgy, modern styling (the current Teslas are fugly)
Notice that:
Price
Range
Perceived reliability
are not contributors
Oh, btw ...
I just rented a car for a month and drove 9200 miles/ 34 states, every border/ perimeter state just for fun.
I saw precisely 0 Teslas outside CA
Lots of pickup trucks and American cars.
WoodlandHills
Well-known member
How many years away is a new i3? Not just an update, but a new car on the platform, hopefully a stretch version (i5). Or any new i-series car of any sort?
For that matter, when will the electric 3-series come to market?
Will we see any of these cars before the Model 3?
For that matter, when will the electric 3-series come to market?
Will we see any of these cars before the Model 3?
mindmachine
Well-known member
I am not really concerned as the rest of you as I know how slow changes can be even though the promoters say it is almost there it often does not happen in the time frame they say it will. Still loving my i3 so much I just will enjoy what I have until something better tweaks my internist.
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
BMW has said there will be no new I-series models before 2020, but that ALL of their vehicles will have some plug-in hybrid functionality by that time. Now, there will likely be some tweaks, most probably with batteries and maybe some other enhancements (laser headlights?) coming over that time along with maybe a mid-cycle update. They had previously shown a prototype 2-door i3, but personally, it was the same length, and made access to the rear harder (why?), but that was just a prototype.
The Frankfurt Auto Show is coming very soon (Sept 15-16)...who knows for sure.
The Frankfurt Auto Show is coming very soon (Sept 15-16)...who knows for sure.
stumbledotcom
Well-known member
All of the speculation here is ridiculous.
Fact: Tesla began taking Model X reservations February 9, 2012. On September 1, 2015, early reservation purchasers were allowed to begin configuring their vehicles.
Draw your own conclusions about Musk hype vs. reality.
Fact: Tesla began taking Model X reservations February 9, 2012. On September 1, 2015, early reservation purchasers were allowed to begin configuring their vehicles.
Draw your own conclusions about Musk hype vs. reality.
philly10
Active member
Lots of hate on this forum for the Tesla, in my opinion they're stunning. Just come back from Amsterdam and seen a shit load of them and even had a look around the Tesla showroom. I don't know how anyone can say they're "fugly" again in my opinion the i3 hit every branch on the way down the ugly tree (obviously the missus thinks otherwise). Also read lots of comparison between the 2 as well which is just idiotic the only thing they have in common is they're electric, its like comparing a BMW 1 Series to a Maserati Quattroporte....
again in my opinion the i3 hit every branch on the way down the ugly tree (obviously the missus thinks otherwise). Also read lots of comparison between the 2 as well which is just idiotic the only thing they have in common is they're electric, its like comparing a BMW 1 Series to a Maserati Quattroporte....WoodlandHills
Well-known member
It looks like the new PHEV 330 will have an electric range under 23 miles as per the U.S. Rating standard. Ditto the new Euro only 2-series.....
Is this going to be enough? I realize that hybrids are not EVs, but only 20 miles.....? And to announce that you are not going to update your most modern car for 6 years thus guaranteeing that is will be obsolete just makes no sense. The EV market is changing nearly as fast as the PC market a few years ago, so why no re-vamped i3 until 2020?
And why no new variants on the i3 platform? It seems like a waste of the R&D and plant investment to only make a single model on a platform and goes against the trend of sharing a platform across many brands and model lines.
Is this going to be enough? I realize that hybrids are not EVs, but only 20 miles.....? And to announce that you are not going to update your most modern car for 6 years thus guaranteeing that is will be obsolete just makes no sense. The EV market is changing nearly as fast as the PC market a few years ago, so why no re-vamped i3 until 2020?
And why no new variants on the i3 platform? It seems like a waste of the R&D and plant investment to only make a single model on a platform and goes against the trend of sharing a platform across many brands and model lines.
mindmachine
Well-known member
WoodlandHills said:
First of all, I own a Toyota Prius Plug-in and with only 13-14 miles of EV range I average over 55% ev miles in total so far after 21 months of ownership. Now add in the 10 gallon tank and 52 MPG highway and it is a super car at a low initial cost. Not everyody needs 200 mile range to have a super efficient plug-in car.
I personally would not pay more money on my i3 for more ev range, I find with 95 miles in the summer and the Rex it is a perfect combination, especially had they BMW left the Rex engagement and gas tank alone in the US market.
Just my 2 cents! I think BMW did a great job on the i3 it is a revolutionary car indeed.
WoodlandHills
Well-known member
If my i3 had a five gallon tank I would agree with you...
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
People cannot seem to get this simple fact...BMW did research and found that most people do not drive more than mid-30 miles/day AND that the i3 was designed as a city/suburban car...i.e. NOT as an ICE replacement (those are coming, eventually). For what it was designed for, I think it does a great job. Just like a pair of pliers may remove a nut, usually, a wrench is better; IOW, the right tool for the job. If you try to make the i3 a multi-tool a la a Leatherman, or similar, yes, it can work, and people do use them successfully, but it is rarely the best tool for the job.
A plug-in hybrid often is not running all-electric mode, but the instant torque and aid it can give to the vehicle can make it function very well with a smaller ICE in it, meaning your mileage is better ALL of the time, and you might be able to use EV mode only in some circumstances, like maybe running to the corner store or other local errands.
In more and more places, in the larger cities of the world, there is a penalty, if allowed at all, in using an ICE in the city center. Having an EV capability, even in a hybrid, can save a person huge amounts of money if their daily commute takes them in those areas. While the USA is a large market, cars are designed to accommodate the world as well. Some things that work well in Europe in/near one of the larger cities, may not work well at all in our rural areas...the distances are just too big, so a different solution is called for. If you need a wrench, buy a wrench, but don't complain if you bought a pair of pliers, and they round the nut!
A plug-in hybrid often is not running all-electric mode, but the instant torque and aid it can give to the vehicle can make it function very well with a smaller ICE in it, meaning your mileage is better ALL of the time, and you might be able to use EV mode only in some circumstances, like maybe running to the corner store or other local errands.
In more and more places, in the larger cities of the world, there is a penalty, if allowed at all, in using an ICE in the city center. Having an EV capability, even in a hybrid, can save a person huge amounts of money if their daily commute takes them in those areas. While the USA is a large market, cars are designed to accommodate the world as well. Some things that work well in Europe in/near one of the larger cities, may not work well at all in our rural areas...the distances are just too big, so a different solution is called for. If you need a wrench, buy a wrench, but don't complain if you bought a pair of pliers, and they round the nut!
mindmachine
Well-known member
WoodlandHills said:If my i3 had a five gallon tank I would agree with you...
I agree with you a 5 gallon tank would make the car much more flexible and log trip friendly.
cove3
Well-known member
This is why I think the 2016 Volt is compelling. 53 miles on pure electric for 95% of the time with a 2L ice for backup and only weighing 3500 lbs. It's primary an electric car versus all the other plug in hybrids, which are primary an ice car. I think it will be a game changer.
I always thought the Rex i3 was an awkward solution to range anxiety
Ron
I always thought the Rex i3 was an awkward solution to range anxiety
Ron
mindmachine
Well-known member
Sorry for me but the new Volt does not get it all.cove3 said:
philly10 said:Lots of hate on this forum for the Tesla, in my opinion they're stunning. Just come back from Amsterdam and seen a shit load of them and even had a look around the Tesla showroom. I don't know how anyone can say they're "fugly"
As someone who doesn't think i3 is pretty (and I am being kind) I find Tesla Model S not ugly, but very plain and dull. It looks either like a ford or a jaguar from different angles, and neither is a compliment for a $100K "status" car. I find it is very milquetoast/dull.
I don't have a problem with Tesla, the only issue is that they don't have a car that suits us.
The Model S is too big, the Roadster is too small. Be interesting to see the compact version when it arrives. I think it's going to be bigger than the i3 though, and I'm skeptical that it will be more efficient. Hope I'm wrong!
The Model S is too big, the Roadster is too small. Be interesting to see the compact version when it arrives. I think it's going to be bigger than the i3 though, and I'm skeptical that it will be more efficient. Hope I'm wrong!
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
One thing that bothers me about the TEsla battery pack is the physical number of cells in there - it's huge. Every connection presents a potential failure avenue. The i3's design is more elegant, and easier to isolate and repair, and, should be more reliable, long-term. Only time will tell, as none of the EVs out there have really been around long enough to test long-term reliability in the field with real users verses lab tests.
