Range Question

If you have a range extender, can you simply refill the gas tank to continue on a trip that is longer than the listed range? Thanks.

Yup.

With the EU model, you can use the petrol first (once the battery has run down to 75%, at least). You'll get 70 - 80 miles of range from the fuel and then it automatically turns the ICE off and you have the 75% of the battery left - plenty to find a petrol station and fill up with an embarrassingly meagre splash of petrol. I've done this a few times and it's very, very slick and automatic.

I think the USA model won't let you manually trigger the ICE - you have to use the battery up first. This is a lot less convenient for refilling, I'd imagine - as you'd need to find a petrol station (i) before you run out and (ii) after you've used enough to make space for more!

Many thanks! This car would only work for me if I could "extend the range extender". There are a few times each year when I must drive 200 miles to reach my destination. Sounds as if I could drive any distance as long as petrol is available? Then plug into a rapid charger installed at my destination.

Yes you can. Here in Europe, some people reported up to 900km in one day. No problem whatsoever.
For 200 miles, one refill should be enough.

Frank
Germany

I shall at some point today write a piece about my journey yesterday. I was considerably let down by the charging infestructure so I had no choice but to use the Rex. I had to fill up twice on the motorway, tried to put in 9 litres but 7.8 seemed to be the maximum. The distance travelled between fills was 73 miles @ 72mph in Eco plus mode. What did worry me was the rapid decline on the range indicator, it was showing 15 miles remaining and literally in seconds it went down to 9 miles and was reducing far earlier than the distance travelled. It did make me twitch.

BoMW said:

I shall at some point today write a piece about my journey yesterday. I was considerably let down by the charging infestructure so I had no choice but to use the Rex. I had to fill up twice on the motorway, tried to put in 9 litres but 7.8 seemed to be the maximum. The distance travelled between fills was 73 miles @ 72mph in Eco plus mode. What did worry me was the rapid decline on the range indicator, it was showing 15 miles remaining and literally in seconds it went down to 9 miles and was reducing far earlier than the distance travelled. It did make me twitch.

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Ooo ... i had a funny yesterday. .. i started up with a healthy 71 eco plus miles range (97%) for my 64 mile journey home. On exiting the car park my range plummeted to 51 miles... The car politely told me I wouldn't make it home and offered to find charging locations. . I accepted the offer and my lovely i3 found one 63 miles away! Needless to say I made it home with 20 miles range to spare.. Hmmm.

Neil you've just reminded me about the "find charging facility" warning. Once I had selected the option I saw it find points of interest and a charging point. Once I selected this charging point the Nav would start. Again within seconds the warning would come up to find a charging facility, and so it went round and round. I'd pick the charger within adequate range and ye it just ignored its own advice/instruction.

noakey said:

Ooo ... i had a funny yesterday. .. i started up with a healthy 71 eco plus miles range (97%) for my 64 mile journey home. On exiting the car park my range plummeted to 51 miles...

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Sounds familiar.

I was hoping that the more I used the car the more I'd get used to the range available but I'm finding the opposite, the range predictor is varying by so much I'm not getting much confidence in relying on it. Obviously with a REx it's not such a big problem but I'd be worried if I had the BEV.

I took this short video the other day as an example. I'd arrived home with 46% SoC and the app was showing 31 miles of range. A couple of hours later (car hadn't moved), reload the app and with the same SoC the range jumps +10 miles. No idea why but it does this all of the time.

http://goo.gl/cxn5CN

I think that's due to battery behaviour when it's under load. At that point when you arrive home the battery has been under load/ pressure from the trip and still shows the range as if it will continue the trip.
Hours later when the load/pressure has reduced because its been switched off the range would increase, but again once it starts being driven the range should revert. That's my theory anyhow!

Hersey33 said:

Many thanks! This car would only work for me if I could "extend the range extender". There are a few times each year when I must drive 200 miles to reach my destination. Sounds as if I could drive any distance as long as petrol is available? Then plug into a rapid charger installed at my destination.

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Yes, but the catch is that if you cannot also recharge the battery, you will be stopping about every hour to refill the gas tank. That's assuming you're going about 70 mph on a highway. And in cold weather, that range will be reduced significantly. Data is no abundant, but some say about 50 miles of range in cold weather... Largely due to the cabin heater.

It sounds like a lot of range anxiety and unpredictable behaviour. I love the concept and would like to contribute to a cleaner planet, but I am seriously debating whether, at this stage, it is worth all the bother. For the same money, I have a lot of choices, yes, less green, but sooo much less stress. I understand the enthusiasm of early adopters and admire it. I currently drive a highlander hybrid, it is less green, but I never think twice about range. I am also interested in battery life warranty and resale value. The latter is still a very big unknown.

How did you resolve your anxiety issues and have you considered battery life and resale? I am told by a friend that works at an auto dealer that hybrids are sold at auto auctions even when the batteries are dead because the new buyer can still use the i.c.e. This would be a major inconvenience with the i3.

Thanks for your willingness to teach and your patience.

#rangeanxiety Solved this by going for the REx option. Our daily work commute, as confirmed with an extended test drive, is more than covered by the battery range but we wanted added peace of mind. We also go on 200+ mile trips a couple of times a year; while we are keeping our traditional turbo diesel car, we want 99% of our miles to be on the i3.

#"unpredictablebehavior" Not sure what you are talking about--its a car, it drives like a car. It doesn't jump off the road. Could you be more specific?

#resale #batterylife We addressed this by doing a 3-year lease. Even as an early adopter, we don't see value in buying a car who's technology will very likely be inferior in 3 year's time due to various advances. By doing a lease, we have a guaranteed value at the end of 3 years and won't have to worry about selling it--BMW can worry about that (which they have by making 95% of the car recyclable). We pay a little more for this 'peace of mind' by going with a lease and that is worth it to us. We call it "Happiness Tax". In the same vein, we expect in 3 years time for there to both advancements and more options available that provide for increased range. We don't want to buy a car now that remains limited to <100 miles on electric when in 3 years the tech and options should be available at double/triple that.

Your points are very insightful. By unpredictability, I was referring to previous posters who found the range estimates changed considerably quite often, while driving the car. I had not considered a lease, but now I will look into it, thanks to your ideas. I totally agree with your assessment of the changing technology making this car outdated in just a few years.

With a REx, it will still be a car which can satisfy most people´s demands. Still, I too hope to buy a model with much higher electrical range in very few years.

I am going to get my i3 REx in 2 hours ;-)))

Frank
Germany

Hersey33 said:

Your points are very insightful. By unpredictability, I was referring to previous posters who found the range estimates changed considerably quite often, while driving the car. I had not considered a lease, but now I will look into it, thanks to your ideas. I totally agree with your assessment of the changing technology making this car outdated in just a few years.

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Hi... i have had my bev for a week now and covered about 600 miles.. The range can change about a bit but you need to get to know the car, the conditions, what type of journey you are undertaking etc.... things only you know but the range calculation algorithms don't. My 64 mile commute each way can start with a variation of 75 to 95 miles range, but in arrival I always have 25 left.

Remember that i3 is trying to estimate range based on consumption and history. .. Once you get into your journey the accuracy improves.

The moral of this story is... get to know your car... use the percentage charge on the app to help you decide together ( you and i3) your range. I feel quite happy now and range anxiety is almost a thing if the past (a week ago).

Have lots of fun.

BoMW said:

I think that's due to battery behaviour when it's under load. At that point when you arrive home the battery has been under load/ pressure from the trip and still shows the range as if it will continue the trip.
Hours later when the load/pressure has reduced because its been switched off the range would increase, but again once it starts being driven the range should revert. That's my theory anyhow!

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I see what you're saying but it's not working like that in my experience as it can jump up or down after the journey depending on, not sure what. This morning range jumped up after the commute and then a bit later it jumped back down. I know temperature is in the mix but it's not varying by that much.

Anyway, I've learnt ball park figures for what my car can do for different driving styles and that's fine. I'm just saying that I was expecting the range predictor to be less volatile than it is (+/- 30% step jumps for the same SoC). I probably had too high expectations considering that there are so many variables that can affect it.

Range should be improving for EU/UK BEV and REX owners now summer is here!


But battery degredation is an issue over time and range is affected by colder (and hotter than 95 deg F) weather.

My second day with the i3 REx. Did 153km ( 95 miles ) today with 19km ( 12 miles ) remaining. Country roads, not faster than about 55 mph. EcoPro+ with occasional quicker accelerations. Temperature not yet good, only 2,5°C in the morning and a max of 18°C in the afternoon. Have experience with electric cars, my last was an i-MiEV.

I would NOT rely on 75 miles range in the winter without REx.

Frank
Germany

Frank,

What's your best estimate of winter (-15C) range without the REx. Assuming you have the heat pump option for cabin heating with the BEV?
80km?

No, I don`t have a BEV, mine is a REx. No heat pump, as this is not possible with the REx.

The BEV would gain another 4-5% range compared to the REx due to the reduced weight.
I expect that I could do 10% more than yestderday in warm weather, so 125 miles could be possible for me with a BEV in optimum conditions.

My experience with the i-MiEV I had before, in very cold weather ( we had less than -15°C in that time ), range can drop to about 65% of optimum range. So with an i3, 80 miles may be possible in cold weather, if you drive no faster than 55 mph.

However, I always drove without heating in the winter, with seat heating only. And cold air to keep the windows open. I am used to that, because before my first electric car I drove very fuel efficient diesels for 15 years - Volkswagen Lupo 3L and Audi A2 3L. Those need a long time before the heating gets warm. As I mostly drive short distances between 1 and 10 miles, these cars hardly ever got warm. Had some warm clothes on and it didn`t really bother me.
In the i-MiEV, I had a seat heating for the first time. That is wonderful and really helps, so I could easily do without heating. The i-MiEVs seat heating was only bottom, the i3 has bottom and back, and goes in 3 stages. Haven´t used it yet of course, but I expect it will be much better.

My feeling with the i-MiEV was that above 5°C I didn`t miss anything, felt absolutely comfortable. Down to -5°C, I still felt comfortable, but hands begin to get cold. The one thing I really missed in the i-MiEV was a heated steering wheel. That is possible in the i3, but only in an expensive package. Didn`t buy that. Below -5°C, I drove the i-MiEV with gloves.

With the i-MiEV, I was always able to do 100km ( 62 miles ) even in coldest weather. The i3 has clearly more range. Very important: you can preheat the battery as well, which should help a lot. And you drive a long distance, so the battery will stay warm. I always drove with a very cold battery and short distances.

I think it may be possible to do 75 miles with the i3 at -15°C with some restrictions. You can preheat the car and battery, deice the windows, but during the journey the heating then should be used with reduced intensity, say 5-10°C with a heat pump. Seat heating helps an awful lot, steering wheel heating would make it perfect. Those only need a few Watts and hardly reduce range.

During normal winter comditions, everything should go easy. 75 miles are not impossible, but still a challenge at -15°C. One aspect one should keep in mind is that there may be snow on the road, which also reduces range. Ageing will be a factor after several years. My personal decision would be to go for a REx, as I have done. I only very rarely drive distances beyond the capabilities of a BEV. Still I don`t want to have any limitations. If in a few years we will have 200 miles BEV range and quick chargers along main motorways, we can all do without REx.

You could look if there are any chargers along the way, so you can top up just in case.

Frank
Germany