i3Alan
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:24 am

TOEd wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:40 am
Why not sell it to a Canadian or someone else who doesn't need a/c for most of the year? Our a/c rarely runs, even during L3 charging. We are in Toronto Canada.
The AC system is also the heating system for the car. The one compressor drives dual heat pumps. One heats and cools the cabin, and the other heats and cools the battery. If our Canadian friends don't have heating, then both their rear ends will be cold (of course I did not order the seat heaters for this i3 in Phoenix!), and their battery will be way sluggish until it has had enough chance to generate its own internal heat. But even Canadians will see enough summer heat that the battery would suffer greatly if not cooled. That is, without the AC, the car will get inadequate power delivery in cold and rapid battery deterioration in the heat. At least in the extreme cold, the electric heat will kick in (and seriously reduce the range!).

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:16 pm

This issue seems to be even more expensive than mount failures. If BMW has updated the parts (compressor/valves, etc.), perhaps it would make sense to get them replaced proactively?
Maybe the lesson here is, if you start seeing your AC lose the ability to cool the car, replace the AC compressor immediately.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

Srivenkat
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:04 pm

i3Alan wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:13 pm
In a good will gesture, BMW will contribute $2000 towards the purchase of a new BMW, with the dealer kicking in $4000 as a trade-in (for a totaled car!).
Not sure if you got the $2000 figure in *your* discussions directly with BMW Customer Service or if that's what BMW told the dealer. If the latter, I would try calling BMW directly and requesting that BMW cover the costs for the repair, citing the fact that this has shaken the confidence of the BMW i3 community both here and on FB in regard to this specific issue of a compressor failure killing the whole vehicle designed to last a longer time than conventional vehicles.

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:22 am

try calling BMW directly and requesting that BMW cover the costs for the repair, citing the fact that this has shaken the confidence of the BMW i3 community
Doubt that BMW would do that (though they should). Even if the car had been covered by BMW's Platinum extended warranty - the fine print on it says they will only cover repairs up to the value of the vehicle, and trade-in on a 2014 Bev in average condition, average mileage, according to Kelly Blue Book is about $10K. But at the very least, BMW should be offering to buy the car back or trade it for a similar BMW lease return, as totaling a car if the AC compressor fails is a pretty big design flaw (exacerbated by a BMW Dealership service dept. unable to recognize a failing compressor when the car was first brought in for a problem with the AC). There should be some sort of filter/trap in the AC system that prevents metal particles from a disintegrating compressor permeating the entire system and totaling the car - and something BMW should be immediately jumping on for a recall/retrofit - and BMW should be issuing a Service Bulletin to all BMW Dealerships, to alert them of the problem, so they change out the compressor if there is even a hint it may be going bad.

Wonder if this kind of catastrophic failure is more prone to happen to Bevs, where the AC compressor does double-duty as the (Bev-only) heat-pump, so is in service for both heating and cooling - which may indicate a heavier-duty AC compressor is needed in the Bev models.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

Srivenkat
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:37 pm

MKH wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:22 am
try calling BMW directly and requesting that BMW cover the costs for the repair, citing the fact that this has shaken the confidence of the BMW i3 community
Doubt that BMW would do that (though they should). Even if the car had been covered by BMW's Platinum extended warranty - the fine print on it says they will only cover repairs up to the value of the vehicle, and trade-in on a 2014 Bev in average condition, average mileage, according to Kelly Blue Book is about $10K. But at the very least, BMW should be offering to buy the car back or trade it for a similar BMW lease return, as totaling a car if the AC compressor fails is a pretty big design flaw (exacerbated by a BMW Dealership service dept. unable to recognize a failing compressor when the car was first brought in for a problem with the AC). There should be some sort of filter/trap in the AC system that prevents metal particles from a disintegrating compressor permeating the entire system and totaling the car - and something BMW should be immediately jumping on for a recall/retrofit - and BMW should be issuing a Service Bulletin to all BMW Dealerships, to alert them of the problem, so they change out the compressor if there is even a hint it may be going bad.

Wonder if this kind of catastrophic failure is more prone to happen to Bevs, where the AC compressor does double-duty as the (Bev-only) heat-pump, so is in service for both heating and cooling - which may indicate a heavier-duty AC compressor is needed in the Bev models.
I agree with everything you mention. Whether they repair or total it, they should do right by the customer. We have seen reports of BMW picking up the cost for the mount repair even outside of warranty, so I feel BMW might very well do something reasonable for OP, if he contacts them directly.

vreihen
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:58 pm

Because the car was not in an accident, stating that it was "totaled" doesn't mean that auto insurance is going to pay for a purely mechanical failure. The owner is on the hook for the loan if it is still financed. Also, there would surely be a personal credit score hit involved if the car was ironically financed through BMW Financial and the owner stopped paying the loan to stick it to the corporation.

Does your state have a lemon law, and is this car still under those terms? If not, I would hit the dealer with a negligence suit for mis-diagnosing the problem before the compressor grenaded.....
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World, Tech and Driving Assistant packages, 15K miles

i3Alan
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:38 pm

vreihen wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:58 pm
Because the car was not in an accident, stating that it was "totaled" doesn't mean that auto insurance is going to pay for a purely mechanical failure. The owner is on the hook for the loan if it is still financed. Also, there would surely be a personal credit score hit involved if the car was ironically financed through BMW Financial and the owner stopped paying the loan to stick it to the corporation.

Does your state have a lemon law, and is this car still under those terms? If not, I would hit the dealer with a negligence suit for mis-diagnosing the problem before the compressor grenaded.....
No accident so no insurance coverage, no lemon law applicability, and the car is owned outright.

There are three issues with the AC failure as I see it.

First, the dealer did not correctly diagnose the original problem. New AC systems should NEVER leak, but mine did, and the dealer said it was normal and charged me for refrigerant fill.

Second, it is highly possible, if not probable, that the service tech overfilled the refrigerant, or failed to add the required lubricant with the refrigerant, or other mis-repair, as that would be a likely cause for the compressor self-destruction, especially if there was no other issues beyond some micro leak in the system. But, just as with the first issue, this, too will be impossible to prove, and the dealer doesn't seem inclined to just assume it was their fault.

Third, the basic system design is a terrible failure because it is too easily exposed to catastrophic failure with outrageous repair costs.

The real issue personally is that I loved this car and now I am forced to replace it. Normally, when I fall out of love with a car in typically 6-10 years, I would buy a new car and do a private-party sell of my old car. However, I don't know how to sell a car for salvaging. I will call the auto yards and see what they say. I might try some on-line adds. I will also tell dealers what is wrong and see if they are willing to trade it in anyway. With trading, I will definitely lose the couple thousand dollars that I normally get selling private party versus what any dealer offers for trade in, and I will also lose because the car has lost value due to it must go to salvage. Well, the Tesla model 3, Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf sure are looking a lot more attractive to me. Unfortunately the Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Kia and Hyundai EVs are not available in Arizona yet, and the rest are around double the cost of the i3. Also, I am going to give BMW USA another chance to make this right.

I do very much appreciate the discussion about this with so many. Thanks.

Srivenkat
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:10 pm

i3Alan wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:38 pm
Also, I am going to give BMW USA another chance to make this right.
Since you are an informed owner, I think there's a great chance BMW will own up the failure, if you mention your concerns as you detailed above to BMW iCOncierge directly (i.e., NOT thru the dealer). I say this because in the FB group, just a few days back, a gentleman posted his experience with the dealer messing up a preventative owner-paid motor mount replacement out of warranty and when he complained to BMW directly about the messup, BMW agreed to pickup the entire cost. You will see the post if you search the group for motor mount. Good luck!

I33t
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:44 pm

If the BMW isn't go to cheap replace the problem, would you be able to get the parts from one of previously crashed i3?
The second parts should be able from damaged i3's in the US.

Would that work?
2014 BMW i3 BEV deposit placed 19th Dec 2013
Delivered in Melbourne 4/12/2014. Arrived locally 11/12/14, with 24km on the clock.

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:44 am

would you be able to get the parts from one of previously crashed i3 - Would that work?
Don't think parts are the problem. The AC system runs through the entire battery pack - as it cools it during charging. Labor is the issue - to replace the entire AC system, the car pretty much needs to be dismantled, and the battery pack completely disassembled. Would be a daunting task for even BMW engineers to do, let-alone an owner/diy.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

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