I33t
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:53 am

MKH wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:44 am
would you be able to get the parts from one of previously crashed i3 - Would that work?
Don't think parts are the problem. The AC system runs through the entire battery pack - as it cools it during charging. Labor is the issue - to replace the entire AC system, the car pretty much needs to be dismantled, and the battery pack completely disassembled. Would be a daunting task for even BMW engineers to do, let-alone an owner/diy.
Sure, but the problem is possibly not in the battery pack. i3Alan told us that the system:

1. There was a leak, and the dealer didn't correctly diagnose it.
2. Possibly the service tech overfilled the the refrigerant, or failed to add the lubricant etc that caused the compressor self destruction.
3. Basic system system design is a terrible failure.

So, if it isn't easy to have the BMW replace it cheap, it would be better to take the i3 to find a good airconditioner dealer, test the pressure AC inside the battery pack, and if it is sealed, then replace the second parts from a broken i3. Fix the leaks, and replace the compressor. That would be way cheaper than paying thousands from the BMW dealer, and saving the i3 from sent it to the dump.
2014 BMW i3 BEV deposit placed 19th Dec 2013
Delivered in Melbourne 4/12/2014. Arrived locally 11/12/14, with 24km on the clock.

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:15 am

Sure, but the problem is possibly not in the battery pack. i3Alan told us that the system:

1. There was a leak, and the dealer didn't correctly diagnose it.
2. Possibly the service tech overfilled the the refrigerant, or failed to add the lubricant etc that caused the compressor self destruction.
3. Basic system system design is a terrible failure.
You left out #4. The compressor ground it self to scrap, pumping shrapnel and metal shavings and filings throughout the system. In a system as complex as the i3 Bev's, flushing will not remove all the metal contamination. Flush the system and replace the compressor, condenser, and orifice tubes, and in a few weeks, the compressor will fail again, due to the metal contamination still in the system damaging the new compressor. In a case like this, with a metal-contaminated system, no reputable AC shop would warranty the repair if they didn't replace the entire system, and no AC shop is going to agree to work on the full system, since it involves an unfamiliar car with high-voltage battery pack and electrical connections which can be major electrocution hazards.

My guess is that the Dealership's $20K quote for repairs included the cost of flying in a couple of people from the BMW i3/i8 production plant near Leipzig, Germany for the week or two that a repair job would take. Because it is obvious that this particular Dealership hasn't even the skills check and add Freon to an i3 AC system without screwing it up, let alone attempt a major repair on one,
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

Srivenkat
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:43 pm

Another aspect to consider is that BMW would necessarily have to replace the whole system for:

1. liability reasons such as if a metal shaving eventually punctures the battery and causes a fire, or
2. having to repeatedly replace the compressor as and when it fails in the future, since their first limited repair wouldn't be considered comprehensive in a court of law, a recurring expense BMW may not be willing to accept.

IOW, there are potential safety and expense issues with a non-comprehensive/limited trial fix.

So, if it comes down to it, an out of warranty i3 owner could potentially choose to take a calculated risk with having the system flushed as best as it can be and the compressor replaced at an independent BMW i-specialist shop (I heard there are a couple of them in Nashville), additionally minimizing use in summer until the repair proves itself to be a success over a period of time?

I33t
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:25 pm

MKH wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:15 am
Flush the system and replace the compressor, condenser, and orifice tubes, and in a few weeks, the compressor will fail again, due to the metal contamination still in the system damaging the new compressor.
Couldn't they add a filter to prevent any remaining metal containments before it runs into the compressor?
2014 BMW i3 BEV deposit placed 19th Dec 2013
Delivered in Melbourne 4/12/2014. Arrived locally 11/12/14, with 24km on the clock.

Srivenkat
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:56 pm

Realoem shows BMW has gone thru several updates to the compressor, so it looks like this is (or was) a weak point:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=64526830620

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:04 am

So, if it comes down to it, an out of warranty i3 owner could potentially choose to take a calculated risk with having the system flushed as best as it can be and the compressor replaced at an independent BMW i-specialist shop (I heard there are a couple of them in Nashville), additionally minimizing use in summer until the repair proves itself to be a success over a period of time?


Certainly something that could be tried - but no way to completely minimize use - the system kicks in to cool the battery every time you plug it in to charge. A $1,000 to $2,000 gamble. Maybe adding an in-line debris screen like this would do the job.

https://www.airsept.com/Products/Details/32
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

I33t
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:27 am

Alan said the cost of repairing the AC for Total repair estimate was over $21,000

I reckon, if the filter is installed and second parts from a wrecked i3 it would run. Have the filter checked in a few weeks to see if there is parts in the filter.

That would keep the i3 running, and keep it without paying $21,000 or sending it to the dump.
2014 BMW i3 BEV deposit placed 19th Dec 2013
Delivered in Melbourne 4/12/2014. Arrived locally 11/12/14, with 24km on the clock.

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:05 am

I reckon, if the filter is installed and second parts from a wrecked i3 it would run.
Wouldn't need to take parts from a wreck. If BMW refuses to take care of the repairs, an option would be take it to an Auto AC shop, have them remove the damaged compressor, flush the system really well, install a new compressor, along with a suction screen to protect it, and see what happens. Might just keep the car on the road a few more years, or might not - with the i3 Bev AC system cooling/heating the cabin, and cooling/heating the battery, there are several 'paths' for the AC oil & Freon to flow, and I think the flow even changes direction in sections of the AC system depending on if heating or cooling, all controlled by a series of valves. Flushing the system may not really flush the system.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/i01- ... ompressor/

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/i01- ... ith-lines/
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

Srivenkat
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:20 am

MKH wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:04 am
... Maybe adding an in-line debris screen like this would do the job.

https://www.airsept.com/Products/Details/32
Great to know; the comparison chart on the page alludes to traditional filters as well; didn't know that metal shavings are a common issue, not specific to the i3. Although there is a safety dimension specific to the i3 that, it looks like, could be mitigated by these filters. Although any shavings that plug a battery cooling channel could cause the battery modules to overheat?

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MKH
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Re: Air conditioning failed

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:02 am

Although any shavings that plug a battery cooling channel could cause the battery modules to overheat?
From this assembly video, looks like the cooling channels are in the bottom of the battery tray, and look fairly large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIan-1Eotlc
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

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