jadnashuanh
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Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:27 pm

Replacing the battery case would be a major endeavor...but, the battery assemblies (not individual cells) are made to be replaced. Torqueing down the cover properly to ensure it is sealed just takes good workmanship and being able to follow instructions.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV
Soon (hopefully!) A 2021 X5 45e will replace the above

alohart
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Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:42 pm

jelloslug wrote:according to the BMW published service manual for the i3
Where can I buy this service manual?
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

crossie
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Location: Ireland

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:59 am

alohart wrote:
jelloslug wrote:according to the BMW published service manual for the i3
Where can I buy this service manual?
Google BMW i3 service manual... some helpful souls may have listed a link to the service manual sans payment.

janner
Posts: 235
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Location: Bath, UK

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:26 am

This is an interview with BMW i USA and discusses battery replacement and future upgrades. Very encouraging.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/04/03/inter ... x5-hybrid/
2015 i3 ReX Solar Orange, Loft interior world. BMW professional, 19" turbine-spoke 429 wheels, DC rapid charging, driving assistant plus.

nowtta60
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Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:40 pm

Edman951 wrote:People always talk about battery upgrade.
But its just like any other car and parts from models above it.
Take a 328 and a M3, upgrading the 328 to M3 is expensive, complicated.
Or upgrading EFI to direct injection from a new model. Almost not possible.
So why would it be any different with a EV?
Future tech is applied to new products, not for retrofit.

Like others said, companies want you to by the new one, not upgrade it. just like an iphone.
So why would it be any different with a EV?
Because in an i3 a set of battery cells is held in a frame that can be dropped by removing a few bolts, lowered onto a dolly, and then taken to one side where its quite easy to replace lithium ion battery cells with whatever tech happens to come along. Be that a direct OEM replcement 18.8kWh usable 22kWh actual, or a upgraded 30kWh pack etc.

For argument sake lets say solid state Sakti3 batteries at double the density and 1/4 the cost turn up in 2022, you could end up with a battery tray containing 50kWh for $3000. Shove that up your REX and you might decide to remove the extra weight of the oily bits. I would.
i3 REX Ordered 06/08/14. Collected 27/01/15
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WoodlandHills
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Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:09 am

How would a battery maker get around BMW's patent on its battery and the shape of the cells? The OEM supplier is all tied up contractually and cannot compete with BMW or else lose the OEM deal. The design and shape of any cells or battery pack are the property of BMW, why would they permit anyone to compete against new car sales with an uprated battery? BMW will vigorously defend its intellectual property rights and patents in US, EU or any other country and without being able to do business in NA or the EU there is no business model. Battery upgrades are just a utopian dream and will never happen.......
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PhilH
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Location: Suffolk, UK

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:58 am

I'd be very surprised if BMW could patent Li-ion batteries or a battery shape. Cite patents?
i3 Capparis White; Winter package; Sunroof; LED lights; Ordered 30 May 2014; Delivered 17 October 2014.

WoodlandHills
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Location: SoCal

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:22 am

It is the same reason that one cannot tool up and begin making copies of BMW engines that are cheaper and more powerful: BMW own the design, ditto with their battery packs. You can cast all the BBC Chevy blocks that you want and sell them for any price you want as long as GM gives you permission since it is their intellectual property. The same thing with Ford transmissions, as long as Ford gives permission you can build and sell AOD trannies from your own castings all day long...... As long as you have permission.
Why would proprietary components of an EV be any different? And do you really think that there is one single part on an i3 that is NOT covered by patent, copywrite or other intellectual property protection? Say what you will about BMW, but they are not that stupid!

Ferrari are able to prevent anyone from making replica cars shaped like their classics, they have won every single case they have brought to court, so why doesn't BMW own the shape of their battery tray and the modules that fit inside of it?
Clipper Creek HCS-40P 32a EVSE
2014 REx Arravani Grey Giga all options
2008 Infiniti EX35
2008 smart ForTwo Cabriolet
2000 F-250 Powerstroke
2006 Westfield eleven
1984 Laverda RGS-1000

jadnashuanh
Posts: 4986
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:53 am

The individual cells fit into a larger assembly...it would not be all that hard to manufacture a bracket that fit into the assembly, and still used the case. Plus, BMW IS likely to come out with bigger battery (higher capacity) packs, and I seriously doubt it would be in their interest to change the main battery case assembly. They've already said they have some on the drawing boards and in the labs.

IOW, I do believe there will be upgraded battery packs, if not from BMW, then someone else. And, as the technology evolves, they are likely to be less expensive and higher capacity.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV
Soon (hopefully!) A 2021 X5 45e will replace the above

Jeffj
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: BMW R&D Boss - "...very hard to replace the batteries...

Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:47 am

I'll remain skeptical (but oddly optimistic) that BMW will offer an upgraded battery pack for the i3 that they will make available. I think an aftermarket pack is more likely. BMW is in the business of selling new vehicles (or re-selling a recent model year vehicle coming off a lease). Selling upgrade packs directly will cut into their core business.

A few people I've seen have made the arguments that they can make money off of selling new packs and that they would be doing their dealers a favor as the dealers would get paid for the labor to replace a pack. I don't think either of those arguments hold water. The profits to be gained from selling a (total guess here) MSRP $5000 battery pack upgrade pale in comparison to the profits made from selling a MSRP $50000 car - which can be mass produced to further increase profit margin. The market for i3 battery pack upgrades might be measured in the low 1,000's in a few years. The market for selling new EV's will be measured in the 100,000's if not higher. There likely just isn't enough market or profit margin for BMW to sell these parts, not to mention the tangled warranty issues that might arise (if the new pack delivers significantly less range than advertised, is it the pack, or the 7-8 year old car and its systems that are at fault?). Once a car gets to be more than 6 or 7 years old, the manufacturers aren't really interested in keeping it going, its consumer interest that keeps old car running.

As for doing the dealers a favor, think again. Dealers are independent businesses that have a franchise agreement with an OEM. Dealers and automakers have an uneasy alliance, and neither really goes out of its way to help the other.

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