Charge AC/DC

Can anyone tell me how the different loading options work?
Without any acquisitions, how much Power/current do I charge with? (230volts in Denmark)
Acquisition 4U7 DC fast charging, price 11754dkr (1550Euro) Power/current?
Acquisition 4U8 AC quick charging, price 7836 (1030Euro) Power/current?

What does the wallbox you can buy? Changes the AC voltage or?
Hope someone can help.
Thanks

The current at home depends on your main supply and local regulations. For example, we have a 1x35A main supply which allows me to add a max. 20A group fuse. So no 32A charging for me at home.
DC is no option at home, these are only available on public fast chargers. Unfortunately, the majority of dc chargers is currently Chademo, not supported by BMW. However, DC combo is supported by the European car manufacturers and GM and also the EC. I think that the nr of these chargers will grow fast.
In Holland, we can choose a combined option of fast ac and dc charging only

Wallbox pure seems to be just a nicely designed cable holder. Charging magic happens in a car.

In standard - up to 3,7 kWh - ca 6h to full charge (with wallbox pure) even less with a cable provided with car (8h)
AC quick charging - up to 7,4 kWh - ca 3h to full charge (at home you will need wallbox)
DC rapid charging - for public CCS chargers, up to 50kWh - less than hour to full charge.

That's it. If public charger has 22kWh Mennekes (AC) plug - you can still get out max 7,4 kWh if you have chosen AC quick charging. If not - 6 hours of waiting with 3,7kWh

Standard solution is sensible if you are going to charge at home only.

Thanks. I am not 100% sure yet, but I am starting to understand

Without any extra options, you will get 16A of charging! 16x230=3680W (3680W x 6 h = 22kWh) minus some loses so maybe 8h to 100%
If you live in the 110V area, you will only get half?? (16 hours charge :-( )

If you take the AC quick charger, you will have another inverter installed in the car, so now it can charge with 32Ax230V=7360W (3 hours to 80%)

I do not know how your electric system are, but here in Denmark we have 3 phases and a zero. 3x230V, so i imagine that an wall box can change the 3 phases to 1 phase. 400 x 16 x root(3) = 11kW, so you can use an ordinary 16A3Phases fusebox.

If you are so lucky that you have a plug with 32A available. Maybe you can save the wall box?
Can anyone with a car tell me how you changes the current limit, so you are not trying to charge with 32A at a plug with only 20A????

Muhv said:

Wallbox pure seems to be just a nicely designed cable holder. Charging magic happens in a car.

Click to expand...

The Wallbox (or any of the equivalent boxes) is more than a cable holder. It contains the signalling electronics and protection circuitry like the EVSE incorporated in the standard slow charging cable supplied with the car.

The BMW offering is grossly oversized and looks ridiculous to me!

With an EV, you don't stop in order to charge - you rather charge whenever you stop.

BrianStanier said:

Muhv said:

Wallbox pure seems to be just a nicely designed cable holder. Charging magic happens in a car.

Click to expand...

The Wallbox (or any of the equivalent boxes) is more than a cable holder. It contains the signalling electronics and protection circuitry like the EVSE incorporated in the standard slow charging cable supplied with the car.

The BMW offering is grossly oversized and looks ridiculous to me!

Click to expand...

Are you telling me the cable is intelligent? Or something inside the plugs!!!

There might be some protective electronics, but the charger sits still in the car and not in the wallbox pure. Wallbox pro seems to have some more features, but these are connected more to useability than charging speed.

Sperillen said:

BrianStanier said:

Muhv said:

Wallbox pure seems to be just a nicely designed cable holder. Charging magic happens in a car.

Click to expand...

The Wallbox (or any of the equivalent boxes) is more than a cable holder. It contains the signalling electronics and protection circuitry like the EVSE incorporated in the standard slow charging cable supplied with the car.

The BMW offering is grossly oversized and looks ridiculous to me!

Click to expand...

Are you telling me the cable is intelligent? Or something inside the plugs!!!

Click to expand...

No, the Wallbox is intelligent. Google EVSE. Here's a link to a DIY portable EVSE. The Wallbox should contain much the same electronics, but in a fancy wall-mounted box.

http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=2385&d=1382295548

Sperillen said:

I do not know how your electric system are, but here in Denmark we have 3 phases and a zero. 3x230V, so i imagine that an wall box can change the 3 phases to 1 phase. 400 x 16 x root(3) = 11kW, so you can use an ordinary 16A3Phases fusebox.

If you are so lucky that you have a plug with 32A available. Maybe you can save the wall box?
Can anyone with a car tell me how you changes the current limit, so you are not trying to charge with 32A at a plug with only 20A????

Click to expand...

A 3 phase 11 kw is still a 1 phase 3,7kw for the i3, no more. Only you can use a 32A fuse, you can charge at 7.4kw. That depends on the main powerfuse.
If you are able to use a 20A fuse, the charger needs to reduce the current to 20A. I dont know if the BMW wallbox can adjust this.

Can anyone tell me why the German wikipedia page states that max AC charging for the i3 is 4,6 kw?

Die Ladung erfolgt dabei einphasig mit maximal 4,6kW, was einen mit 20 A abgesicherten 230-V-Anschluss voraussetzt

Click to expand...

Is this wrong, or did I miss something? I thought it was 7.4Kw

Thanks

Can anyone tell me why the German wikipedia page states that max AC charging for the i3 is 4,6 kw?

Click to expand...

Germany unlike most other countries has 3-phase AC to every household. The balancing between the 3 phases is done at each house and regulations impose a limit of imbalance ("Schieflast" in German) of 20A which is 4.6kW. If you purchase a wallbox that can do 22kW, it will draw 7.4kW with your i3, it just wouldn't be legal in Germany.

A pity BMW went for single phase AC only. Apparently because the majority of the target markets would not benefit from it and it would increase cost and weight. I also believe that BMW does not want consumers to charge at high current for battery longevity. The battery is supposed to hold 75% for 20 years and BMW warrants 10.

Hope it's understandable.
BMW wall box costs a lot of money, so I can not see the problem with the 3 phases. If the box can not take the 3 phases, unifying them into a dc voltage and over again to turn it into 230 volt ac, so the box is worth nothing! I know it will cost 2-3% in efficiency, but can it really be true that you can not do that with a BMW box?

Here in Denmark we have 3 stages and a zero. (230V from phase to zero) (400V between phases). My plan is to connect the car directly to phase zero with no box, but I'm still unsure about the car then charge the maximum amps? Without any electronics.

Sperillen said:

BMW wall box costs a lot of money, so I can not see the problem with the 3 phases. If the box can not take the 3 phases, unifying them into a dc voltage and over again to turn it into 230 volt ac, so the box is worth nothing! I know it will cost 2-3% in efficiency, but can it really be true that you can not do that with a BMW box?

Click to expand...

It's not as simple as you make it sound. Rectifying AC at high currents requires large and expensive components. There are currently no plans to produce DC charging stations for consumers that I am aware of. The cost of a DC charging station (CCS) is reported to be in the area of 30 000 € per unit. Consumers will be limited to AC charging. Unfortunately the i3 limits AC charging to a single phase and 7.4kW -- the biggest flaw in the i3 in my opinion.

Sperillen said:

Here in Denmark we have 3 stages and a zero. (230V from phase to zero) (400V between phases). My plan is to connect the car directly to phase zero with no box, but I'm still unsure about the car then charge the maximum amps? Without any electronics.

Click to expand...

That means Denmark has the same system as Germany. You cannot directly connect your car to any power source as the Type 2 standard requires an electronic communication between the car and the charging station to establish the charging mode. This is basically what is contained inside a wallbox. In addition to that there is usually a residual current device type B with DC sensitivity which is a very expensive component (ca 300 €).

BMW are planning to offer a wallbox that can charge the i3 with ca 6kW. Most likely they will use the 400V between two phases and transform it to 230V, allowing them to draw more power. This is a complex solution and there is a reason they don't have it yet.

However, you don't need a BMW wallbox at all, any wallbox for type 2 will do. If you purchase one that can do 22kW, it will deliver 7.4kW to the i3 even if that might not be technically legal depending on where you live. Examples are wall-e http://wallb-e.jimdo.com/engl/ and crOhm. That is a much more cost effective way than a BMW wallbox and it will give you 7.4kW which is more than the expected new wallbox from BMW will do (but it might be 100% legal).

Thanks for the informative replies.

Adam, the link to plug surfing at the bottom of your message does not seem much use as you apparently cannot filter to Type 2 connectors!!

Hi

Can the Bmw i3 use the DC chargers at the moto services? it uses the jari dc connector? CHAdeMO 125 amp 50 kw ..

i have just added the DC fast charge option to my I3 build ...But im not sure if they will be compatible

Rob

sasman said:

Hi

Can the Bmw i3 use the DC chargers at the moto services? it uses the jari dc connector? CHAdeMO 125 amp 50 kw ..

i have just added the DC fast charge option to my I3 build ...But im not sure if they will be compatible

Rob

Click to expand...

Hi Rob

No the DC charging connector on the i3 is not compatible with the Chademo connectors rolled out in Ecotricity's charging network. But others have reported that Ecotricity plan to upgrade their stations to the i3 CSS standard. It makes sense with so many European manufactures about to launch EVs but I have no idea what this will mean for existing Leaf owners.

Bill

Yes we have the same power grid as Germany with 3 phases and neutral to all consumers. And we have even 50A fuses. So I was hoping that I could charge the maximum current without any box. power is available, so it must be some software that limits me. Hopefully there is a cable on the market that can cheat the car. If I understand correctly that you get a thicker cable when you have selected AC quick charge.

Thanks for that bill ,Can the I3 use the Type 2 mennekes connector? ...I am looking it up on google but im starting to get confused?..


Rob