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Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:35 pm
by Buzzbomb
I got some conflicting info about what they use as a warranty replacement. BMW USA over the phone said that the batteries would be replaced with the same capacity version as originally installed, my local service advisor said that they only use the most recent version in any and all warranty claims. In either case, I cont imagine the warranty going forward would be more than the original 8yr/100k or 90 days, whichever is higher.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:16 pm
by gwilensky
OK, as far as I’m concerned, it’s official now: BMW has the worst warranty ever! My i3’s battery is down to about 74% of what it was when new, 5 years and about 30K miles ago. The dealer told me BMW refused to change the battery under warranty because it had to be under 70%. I filed a complaint with BMW, explaining that a car this new (again, 30,000 miles!) should not have deteriorated so badly, and that at this rate it’s likely it will go under 70% in the next 6 months or something like that, and that BMW should not have an unhappy customer for another 6 months with only ~53 miles of range per charge (which is what I get these days). They investigated, confirmed the 74% charge capacity with the dealer, and then proceeded to reject the claim. They are sticking to the 70%, and they don’t feel 74% is close enough to justify fixing the problem now instead of in a few months. It’s really stupid because even if it takes more than another 6 months it won’t take another 3 years or another 50K miles, which is when that warranty would expire. So, this is plain and simply a bad business practice.

This is really bad, but when you consider that when the car was about 2 years old the steering wheel’s rubber material started to peel off BMW rejected a warranty claim stating it was normal tear and wear, it’s outrageous. Has anyone ever seen the material of the steering wheel peeling off after 10-15K miles on any car? Does BMW think I use sandpaper-lined driving gloves? What kind of craziness is this? I don’t think I’m ever buying a BMW again.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:56 am
by panamamike
Anyone know how BMW makes the determination that the battery merits replacement? I've seen a few different posts on the subject and it doesn't look like it's straight forward. I've seen references to the Max Kappa as well as the actual miles available at battery fully charged. There have also been cases where they will do the battery reset trick to recapture some range, but that will eventually fail after 6 months. If they do this near the 8 yr. 100k mile market, it would be somewhat disingenuous.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:14 am
by eNate
gwilensky wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:16 pm

...BMW has the worst warranty ever! My i3’s battery is down to about 74%

I totally understand your frustration -- I'd be frustrated by the decreased range, too. But 74 is not 70, and 70 is the threshold that's in writing and agreed to -- not "trending toward 70."

That's not to stay stop. If it's enough of a detriment to your daily use I'd keep pushing and maybe they'll relent. But if you can manage and save yourself the anguish and time, just wait it out. Your dealership is just the middleman between you and BMW's warranty wonks, so it's like banging your head against the wall to argue with somebody who, unfortunately, likely doesn't have the influence to change the outcome of the decision.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:34 am
by gwilensky
It's true that 74% is not 70%, and thus strictly speaking they are within their self-imposed rules. But it's like being pulled over by a cop for going 4 miles over the speed limit. Strictly speaking, you broke the law. But is pulling someone over at 4 miles over the right thing to do? Yes, 74% is just 4 points over so they are not legally obligated. But given the car is just 5 years old and has 30K miles, what are the chances the battery will not dip below 70% before the warranty expires in another 3 years or 50K miles? I think it's low, and thus it seems to me a poor business decision for BMW to have an unhappy customer with 50 mile range for a few more months until the batteyr goes under...

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:18 pm
by eNate
True, although some cops in some municipalities will be happy to pull someone over for going 4 over. But I'm off point...

You can look at it from BMW's "bottom line" standpoint -- why pay for something now that they can put off for six months? What if the replacement battery has similar degradation, and now they've got a head start on paying the expense of a second replacement?

On the plus side, it seems that your battery is an outlier, and I would expect the new battery won't have this issue.

I wonder what the chance is to work this into an upgrade to a 94 Ah battery?

Also, do you have other dealerships that you can try your luck at? Some dealerships or even individual service offices personnel may have different sway with the folks at BMW warranty. And if you really play up what a hardship this reduced range is on your daily routine, thet may work as extra persuasion.

Lastly, are there any "consumer action" your TV news segments or newspaper columnists on your area that can make noise on your behalf?

In the end, how much effort are you up for to fight this, versus just waiting it out?

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:37 pm
by jadnashuanh
If you've bought 5 new BMWs from the same dealer, you might get them to sway their decision a bit, but a contract is a contract. IF it got below 70% and they refused, you'd have a case. Now, you don't. Usually, a warranty replacement is good for a year or so, or, potentially, until the original warranty would have expired, not another 8-years. That MIGHT apply if you bought a new battery pack versus being given one under warranty. In the USA, BMWUSA has not chosen to participate in the battery upgrade option path, but that is in some other markets.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:25 am
by jlangham
panamamike wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:56 am
Anyone know how BMW makes the determination that the battery merits replacement? I've seen a few different posts on the subject and it doesn't look like it's straight forward. I've seen references to the Max Kappa as well as the actual miles available at battery fully charged. There have also been cases where they will do the battery reset trick to recapture some range, but that will eventually fail after 6 months. If they do this near the 8 yr. 100k mile market, it would be somewhat disingenuous.
When I first got mine, I was worried that my Max Kappa was lower than anyone else's on this forum (under another post). I took it to the dealer here in the Phoenix area and they ran their own test. They said that the test showed that my battery still had 92% life (that was at 60k miles on my 2014). I didn't believe them, but loved the car and continued to drive it. Now, a year later, my GOM has registered 90 miles a few times because of my driving habits. Even though I drive it like I stole it on the highway, I drive it somewhat conservative on city streets. I haven't even looked at my Max Kappa since then and have lost all "range anxiety."

All that to say, BMW has their own battery test that they use to determine if the battery is bad or not. They didn't give me the detailed results of the test, so it could be BS. I just know that with my better driving habits, my battery will make it past the 100k mile mark with no problem.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:24 am
by panamamike
jlangham wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:25 am
panamamike wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:56 am
Anyone know how BMW makes the determination that the battery merits replacement? I've seen a few different posts on the subject and it doesn't look like it's straight forward. I've seen references to the Max Kappa as well as the actual miles available at battery fully charged. There have also been cases where they will do the battery reset trick to recapture some range, but that will eventually fail after 6 months. If they do this near the 8 yr. 100k mile market, it would be somewhat disingenuous.
When I first got mine, I was worried that my Max Kappa was lower than anyone else's on this forum (under another post). I took it to the dealer here in the Phoenix area and they ran their own test. They said that the test showed that my battery still had 92% life (that was at 60k miles on my 2014). I didn't believe them, but loved the car and continued to drive it. Now, a year later, my GOM has registered 90 miles a few times because of my driving habits. Even though I drive it like I stole it on the highway, I drive it somewhat conservative on city streets. I haven't even looked at my Max Kappa since then and have lost all "range anxiety."

All that to say, BMW has their own battery test that they use to determine if the battery is bad or not. They didn't give me the detailed results of the test, so it could be BS. I just know that with my better driving habits, my battery will make it past the 100k mile mark with no problem.
What was your Max Kappa? Sounds like your starting value was fine. Some folks here are seeing Max Kappa in the 15 area. For some reason, some of the cars batteries are degrading at a different rate than others. So when the time nears, would be good to know the measuring stick they'll be using to determine battery replacement.

Re: Do they really honor the 8/100,000 mile battery warranty? In our case YES!!

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:34 am
by jlangham
panamamike wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:24 am
jlangham wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:25 am
panamamike wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:56 am
Anyone know how BMW makes the determination that the battery merits replacement? I've seen a few different posts on the subject and it doesn't look like it's straight forward. I've seen references to the Max Kappa as well as the actual miles available at battery fully charged. There have also been cases where they will do the battery reset trick to recapture some range, but that will eventually fail after 6 months. If they do this near the 8 yr. 100k mile market, it would be somewhat disingenuous.
When I first got mine, I was worried that my Max Kappa was lower than anyone else's on this forum (under another post). I took it to the dealer here in the Phoenix area and they ran their own test. They said that the test showed that my battery still had 92% life (that was at 60k miles on my 2014). I didn't believe them, but loved the car and continued to drive it. Now, a year later, my GOM has registered 90 miles a few times because of my driving habits. Even though I drive it like I stole it on the highway, I drive it somewhat conservative on city streets. I haven't even looked at my Max Kappa since then and have lost all "range anxiety."

All that to say, BMW has their own battery test that they use to determine if the battery is bad or not. They didn't give me the detailed results of the test, so it could be BS. I just know that with my better driving habits, my battery will make it past the 100k mile mark with no problem.
What was your Max Kappa? Sounds like your starting value was fine. Some folks here are seeing Max Kappa in the 15 area. For some reason, some of the cars batteries are degrading at a different rate than others. So when the time nears, would be good to know the measuring stick they'll be using to determine battery replacement.
My Max Kappa was 12.5 for quite a while in the beginning. I haven't even checked it in a while because I'm not even concerned with battery life any longer. I'll check it at lunch and see what it is.