Berlindriver
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 3:05 am

New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:20 pm

As promised by bmw, they’ll produce the i3 till 2024. So far the good news....
But in an earlier statement it was also mentioned that there would be a new bigger battery combined with a higher charging speed.
Till now, it’s very quiet around this hopefully upcoming update. Does anyone has some news? I would love to continue driving the i3, but the ev environment is quickly asking for cars with a bigger battery capacity and higher charging speeds. I’ve seen nothing about a new battery. Does it still come?
Is here someone with inside information? :roll: :idea:

jadnashuanh
Posts: 5196
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:06 pm

Unless you have access to public CCS units, being able to charge faster won't buy most people much as they likely won't have enough capacity at home to make it happen. I was lucky to be able to put in a 40A circuit. A CCS unit that supports much higher charge rates is pretty much not going to happen in a typical residence, and super high charging rates don't really make a lot of sense in a vehicle designed as a city/commuter car. The thing today can charge at up to 50Kw. In those markets that have 3-phase power to residences, BMW does offer an EVSE and on-board hardware that can handle more than the 7.4Kw we get here in the USA. Don't know of any typical residence in the USA that has 3-phase power coming in.

That's one hassle with bigger batteries, it takes longer for them to recharge, and that longer time on the charger means more heat is generated, which tends to slow it down as they do to protect things. Say the existing battery capacity doubled...even with the existing on-board charging, it still could recharge the whole thing in less than an overnight stay on an EVSE, so where's the big advantage?

Now, if the i3 were designed for extended road trips, that would be a different situation, but you'd still need to find CCS units. THere are a few that now can provide up to 350Kw, but there are still a bunch of them out there limited to 25...not even taking full advantage of what we have now.

50Kw and larger units are being installed. It's still going to be sparse for awhile (better if you live in say CA), and then, the cost to use them starts to approach ICE fuel ranges. Handy if you need it, but still, generally better to charge at home, especially if you can take advantage of off-peak rates. Big DC power supplies are not cheap...the ability to accept it puts more stress on both the battery cooling, and requires bigger gauge wiring, all of which add to the cost and complexity. At some point, things are no longer cost effective. Those systems that can accept really high rates are tending to be using 800-vdc architectures. That would require big changes to the i3, not particularly useful with the stated short life of the model.

Incremental improvements to the batteries are to be expected, and I think there may be a little room to tweak the max EVSE capacity...don't thing we'll see anything really major, but still, probably a nice upgrade to say a 60aH model.
Jim DeBruycker
2014 i3 BEV, 2021 X5 45e
(The i3 will be sold soon, <17K-miles, interested?)

Berlindriver
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 3:05 am

Re: New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:01 pm

Dear Jadnshuanh,

It is interesting to see how different perceptions can be in different countries.
I live in The Netherlands and Germany and there are very many DC chargers (Free and paid) around at shopping centres and at the highways. Many from Fastned, Shell and Ionity. I believe that The Netherlands has the highest density of DC chargers in the world (see www.chargemap.com) In Germany they changed the law. In the near future every fuel station is forced to have some DC charging units. This all makes the perspective different compared to the US.

Like this it’s interesting to travel long distance with every electrical car.Range problems are gone. Instead, charging time is now the issue.
I drive with my I3 (120Ah) (No Rex) a few times a year 650 km between my 2 houses. At a 120km/h speed I can make about 220 km or distance. The Charging speed becomes interesting now. If I could charge with 150 Kw it would shorten my travel time with more than one hour on this longer distance.
Charging at home is of course fine. Here we have all 3 phase if you want it at almost no extra costs. I have it since I’ve the I3. It makes the charging time at home, from 20% to full, 3 hours amd 25 min. Not bad. The car would, according BMW charge with 11Kw, but what I can see , it does it with about 10,4 Kw. Close to the BMW Given value.
The Battery cooling issue is no problem for the i3 as far I noticed. It is active Liquid cooled. If I charge 3 times high speed at the highway I don’t see any issues with a warmer battery. The charging speed is always stable during multiple charging sessions.
So, on topic: I love the car, but would love it even more with a higher charging speed and bigger battery. And I think I’m not the only one that uses this amazing car for long distance travels. In Europe we travel longer distance with smaller cars in general. Seize doesn’t matter;)
It’s like the chicken and the egg.... what is first. If the car would have a bigger battery and a higher charging speed, people would use it also more for the longer distance travel.
Last edited by Berlindriver on Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

frictioncircle
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: USA West Coast

Re: New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:03 am

Dear Berlindriver –
I believe that The Netherlands has the highest density of DC chargers in the world (see www..com)

Could you double-check the "www..com" link, please?

Berlindriver
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 3:05 am

Re: New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:38 am

Sorry,
Typing to quick without a check...;)

A very interesting link below. It’s from 2018, and since then the number of chargers exploded here even.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... dba02a238b

Here it’s stated that the Netherlands have 19,3 public charging stations average per 100 km, compared to 0,9 in the US.
This gives different possibilities when using a car for long distance. That’s actually the point. In 2020 it is already better in the states, but still a lot different compared to Europe.
Quick charging makes the difference now.

I mentioned this above just to explain why a higher charging speed can be interesting for some countries. I think everywhere you live there are thinksto mention that are positive or negative for the use of an ev.

At this website you can actually calculate what a higher charging speed does with your long distance travel time.
A very interesting website as wel:

https://www.ecalc.ch/chargecalc.php

jadnashuanh
Posts: 5196
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:38 pm

I do believe EVs will become the norm, but maybe not with huge batteries...hydrogen is a cleaner way in a fuel cell IF the research establishes a cheaper way to deliver it. Right now, a lot of the hydrogen is produced from natural gas. Throw in that it takes a lot of energy to compress it into a form it can be stored efficiently in a vehicle, and that goes against it unless there's excess energy available to make it happen. If the world keeps expanding wind, solar, wave, and hydro clean power, the excess could be used to produce hydrogen, and make things work better. There has been some progress on using less than pure water for electrolysis with some novel electrodes that may make even use of sea water for the process work.

In the interim, Europe is investing much more in charging networks than the USA. Supply and demand, along with the chicken or egg controversy all play a part in it along with political will and foresite. Now if V2G were widely implemented, that would make batteries a more interesting choice, too. While a few CCS suppliers have done some small tests with that implemented, it does not exist in the CCS standards now. It is in the CHADeMO spec, but that is slowly going away from what it looks like. One manufacturer is going to phase that out in favor of CCS, at least in the USA based on a recent press release. When V2G may get implemented in the CCS standards, is still up in the air, then, implementing it will take awhile, too before it can gain widespread use.

Coming up with high capacity batteries and motors that don't rely so much on the rare earth minerals where China is the primary source, has advantages, too. Extracting them can easily be a nasty environmental issue, which China is less caring about than many other places. Right now, there are only a very limited number of places that are extracting it, and less that are refining those metals from the ore.
Jim DeBruycker
2014 i3 BEV, 2021 X5 45e
(The i3 will be sold soon, <17K-miles, interested?)

Alte191
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 am

Re: New battery for the i3 and higher charging speed update

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:01 am

Berlindriver wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:38 am
Sorry,
Typing to quick without a check...;)

A very interesting link below. It’s from 2018, and since then the number of chargers exploded here even.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... dba02a238b https://dragonpharma.to/

Here it’s stated that the Netherlands have 19,3 public charging stations average per 100 km, compared to 0,9 in the US.
This gives different possibilities when using a car for long distance. That’s actually the point. In 2020 it is already better in the states, but still a lot different compared to Europe.
Quick charging makes the difference now.

I mentioned this above just to explain why a higher charging speed can be interesting for some countries. I think everywhere you live there are thinksto mention that are positive or negative for the use of an ev.

At this website you can actually calculate what a higher charging speed does with your long distance travel time.
A very interesting website as wel:

https://www.ecalc.ch/chargecalc.php
thanks for the information. really good read. i appreciate the link. i remember i heard about something similar but never had someone proving it. thanks for everything.

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