BMW Wallbox Questions

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Parker

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Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
334
Location
UK, EU
Please bear in mind I’m new to all this so I’m just feeling my way at the moment so trying to extract real world info from “marketing speak” is not easy as I don’t have any real day to day experience.

So here goes.

Are there any real benefits to having the BMW Wallbox?

There are 2 companies that will install 32amp Chargers for free (as opposed to £350 for the BMW item) what questions should I ask about these units – bearing in mind in 3 years time I may NOT have a BMW EV but some other brand.

If I choose a non BMW box will I be reducing my options with my I3 further down the track.

Is it cheaper to Fill you EV up with a 32amp charger or a std 240v socket – speed of charging overnight is no issue for me.

For UK members .... does anyone have any experience of using off peak (Economy 7 type) electricity deals . .. are they worth it?


Also something else I’ve learned.......

When is Fast not Fast ..... when its Rapid.

Whilst initially talking to BMW about chargers the word Fast and Rapid were often interchanged and no real significance was attached to either so I thought they were one and the same thing ie 80% charge in 30mins .... this is obviously NOT the case.

I think most NON EV people would refer to charging speeds of Slow, normal and fast .... but of course in the wonderful world of marketing nothing can be “Slow” (ie 10 hours charge time)

.... so 10 hours becomes “Normal”

3 hours becomes “Fast” .... which compared to 10 hours it is .... but I wouldn’t consider 3 hours Fast.

and 80% in 30 mins become “Rapid”

So in my discussions with BMW about would all the BMW “i” dealers have Fast chargers (Thinking these would be the 80% in 30mins type) ... I should have asked would all BMW “i” have Rapid chargers ........which the answer seems to be NO
 
Parker said:
For UK members .... does anyone have any experience of using off peak (Economy 7 type) electricity deals . .. are they worth it?

My tariff with Centrica (BG) is 16.1p/kWh during the day and 7.1p/kWh during the night so quite a difference. Night is a 7 hour period (1am to 8am) so plenty of time to get a charge done.

Also, you've probably seen that Centrica have recently hinted that they are going to introduce free electricity on Saturdays as from next year which follows what they do in certain states in the US to spread the load more efficiently. That's obviously going to be a nice little perk for EV drivers :)
 
Parker said:
Are there any real benefits to having the BMW Wallbox?

None that I'm aware of.
Reliability has been an issue with some charge points installed by British Gas. The BMW one might be better or worse. ZCW has the best track record for reliability.

The BMW charge point is huge compared to others which is a negative. There is no reason for it to be that big. There isn't much inside.


If I choose a non BMW box will I be reducing my options with my I3 further down the track.

Any charge point (including BMW's) with a tethered Type-2 cable is limited to cars with Type-2 Connectors. BMW, VW and Renault use Type-2. The rest do not.

The more flexible option is a charge point with a Type-2 socket. But those can not be mounted inside a garage if it is 'inside the equipotential zone'.

Is it cheaper to Fill you EV up with a 32amp charger or a std 240v socket – speed of charging overnight is no issue for me.

Not sure about the i3. The difference it will be small and may vary from car to car. As a rule switch mode power supplies tend to be more efficient at higher power levels.



DC rapid chargers are far more expensive than AC fast chargers. To make matters worse, the i3 is not compatible with the existing CHAdeMO rapid chargers.
 
Isn't the Type 2 the EU "standard", though - so should work with all future cars?

At least I assume that's why BMW have run with it (and the DC rapid version) - rather than seeing some strategic benefit in locking themselves out of the existing Nissan rapid network.

In answer to the OP - no need for the BMW offer; any compatible one will do. Having read of a few bad experiences of the BG wallbox and its fitters, I'd go for the ZCW option personally. Partly because they are much more EV-aware than BG.
 
SanSerif said:
Isn't the Type 2 the EU "standard", though - so should work with all future cars?


A charge point with a Type-2 socket can fast charge Type-1 cars with an adaptor cable. Charge points with tethered Type-2cables will only with with Type-2 cars.

In the UK, most electric cars on the road and the vast majority now being sold are Type-1.

Leaf presently uses Type 1 for slow or fast charge and CHAdeMO for DC rapid charging. I haven't seen any indication Nissan will be changing the connectors on the Leaf.

The Ampera and Volt use Type-1 for slow or fast charging.

Peugoet and Citroen are using CHAdeMO for their new electric vans. The i-Miev also has a CHAdeMO connector for DC rapid charging. Not sure what connector these use for fast charging.

In Europe, Tesla will be using Type 2 for fast charging up to 11 or 22kW AC. Their DC rapid charger does not use Type-2.

Renault Zoe use Type-2 AC. Kangoo Z.E. vans built before June 2013 use Type-1. Fluence Z.E. uses Type-1.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

So just for clarification ....... is there any Wifi - Bluetooth, Ethernet or wireless connection 3G /4G within the BMW wallbox itself?

I'm assuming all pre conditioning of the cabin (heating or cooling) and timed charging is done directly with the car which then communicates with the charger ...... whatever brand it is - is that correct?
 
Parker said:
Thanks for all the replies.

So just for clarification ....... is there any Wifi - Bluetooth, Ethernet or wireless connection 3G /4G within the BMW wallbox itself?


To qualify for the UK OLEV grant a charging station must collect usage data. Every other grant compliant unit uses cellular data.

The OLEV grant pays for 75% of the total cost including installation with a £1000 cap.

There is no requirement to use grant compliant equipment if BMW wants to ignore the grant money.

I'm assuming all pre conditioning of the cabin (heating or cooling) and timed charging is done directly with the car which then communicates with the charger ...... whatever brand it is - is that correct?

Best to find out. Somethings might be set in the car and not with a remote appliction. Some features may require options.

The protocol between the car and the charging station is limited to communication about charging. Type-1 and Type-2 use the same basic signal:

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/J1772Basics
 
A small point but The BMW / Schneider Electric press release from earlier this month mentions 'maintenance support' so maybe that's another cost to factor in if choosing the BMW i Wallbox option (although maybe it's not mandatory?).
 
I don't see what there is to maintain. There shouldn't be anything that requires regular servicing.

Perhaps a poor translation of the required "back office" support. The OLEV grant requires the wall boxes collect usage data and that the supplier provide government quarterly summaries of the usage of all the boxes they've installed.
 
Well, you could say the same thing about a kettle, a desktop, a monitor, a printer etc but it still doesn't stop the H&S man where I work coming round the office once a year to 'maintain' these things and replace stickers saying they are all safe for another 12 months *phew*

I know it's unlikely that the wallbox is going to require regular maintenance but seeing as Schneider Electric have stated that they will do this work then I thought it was worth mentioning in-case it is an additional cost when compared to the other options. Obviously if it's optional then you don't have to factor it in.
 
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