TomMoloughney
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Re: Poor pedestrian Protection?

Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:28 pm

gaz26 wrote:Should owners be concerned by the NCAP results showing such poor protection for pedestrians? Given the near silent running of an electric car and the expectation most of its work will be in the city how do the engineers at BMW design a car that NCAP shows would probably not be a good experience for a pedestrian if hitting one.

The i3 is not exactly an object of beauty like a Ferrari so what has gone wrong here?

It also appears in efforts to maybe save weight the seats and headrests may not be optimal in terms of top safety, hence the NCAP comments about whiplash?
You need to understand the comments every car has comments like that, even the cars that score 5 stars. Plus the i3 actually scored very high in crash tests for both the driver and passengers. The car actually did achieve a 5 star rating for crash tests but the overall score was just shy of 5 stars because BMW chose to make certain things optional like rear seat belt warning light and automatic speed regulation. If BMW had made those two things standard the car would have been given a 5 star overall rating.

If you are worrying about pedestrian issues take a look at the Chevy Volt's past history, because the i3 scored better than the Volt did in this category, et I don't hear any problems that the Volt is having with this:
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Tom Moloughney
MINI-E: (6/09 - 1/12)
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AndrewDebbie
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Re: NCAP rating

Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:21 am

I would be surprised if BMW does not correct some of the problems and submit an i3 for reassessment.

Mercedes recently did this with the Citan van after it scored only 3 stars. (4 now)
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gaz26
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:44 am

Re: NCAP rating

Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:20 am

AndrewDebbie wrote:I would be surprised if BMW does not correct some of the problems and submit an i3 for reassessment.

Mercedes recently did this with the Citan van after it scored only 3 stars. (4 now)
Yes I agree will also be interesting to see how the US Authorities rate the car and if BMW make last minute changes to the spec.

The absolute key aspect here however will be what happens in crash situations and whether the NCAP comments about things like poor whiplash protection are proven

Governments need to take a closer look at poor pedestrian protection from electric cars given their silent running.

i3me
Posts: 99
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Re: NCAP rating

Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:44 am

An i3 need not be resubmitted by BMW for crash testing if the only changes are in the standard specs, ie that a rear seatbelt warning and the speed notification system are made standard equipment. The i3 will receive the 5 star rating starting from the VIN for which it is valid.
It already has good NCAP scores and nothing need be re-engineerd to achieve the 5 star rating :)
Born Electric on December 30, 2013

TomMoloughney
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Re: NCAP rating

Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:45 am

gaz26 wrote:
AndrewDebbie wrote:I would be surprised if BMW does not correct some of the problems and submit an i3 for reassessment.

Mercedes recently did this with the Citan van after it scored only 3 stars. (4 now)
Yes I agree will also be interesting to see how the US Authorities rate the car and if BMW make last minute changes to the spec.

The absolute key aspect here however will be what happens in crash situations and whether the NCAP comments about things like poor whiplash protection are proven

Governments need to take a closer look at poor pedestrian protection from electric cars given their silent running.
There are always comments like what you are referring to with regard to whiplash will all cars in crash testing. If NCAP had thought it was a serious issue they would have deducted points from the crash test. The i3 scored very high in crash testing for all occupants (5-stars). That would not have been the case if there was a real whiplash issue.

Plus, I believe the speed limit icon is standard in the US (The car I test drove had it). Also, you do seemed a bit obsessed with the pedestrian results. They can test cars all they want for pedestrian safety as far as I'm concerned, but when a car hits a person walking, there is no way to accurately tell have that person will fall into the car as there are so many factors like height & weight, was the person walking or running, were they facing the car or backed up to it, etc. When a 2,000lb car hits a 150lb person, the person loses.

The i3 does come with brake assist for those concerned with this which will eliminate nearly all pedestrian to vehicle incidents. And the worry about the cars being silent is nonsense. BMW's MINI-E and ActiveE programs have logged over 20,000,000 all electric miles and there hasn't been a single incident recorded of a vehicle to pedestrian accident reported. Alert driving saves lives, not loud cars.
Tom Moloughney
MINI-E: (6/09 - 1/12)
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ecoangel
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Re: NCAP rating

Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:00 am

I agree with Tom. The fact is NCAP keeps on changing the goal posts as technology to test cars and technology in cars improves. The comments made in the media are there to cause a reaction and sell the news.

In truth 99% of the cars on the road would fare worse than a bmw i3 if they had to do the current NCAP tests today. And next year they will be even more "unsafe" because new rules for the test come into play.

Take the Aluminium Audi A2 from yr 2000. At the time it was the equivalent of todays i3 and indeed had hidden flooring to allow battery installation at a later date for conversion to EV. However it also scored NCAP 4 out of 5 with a low score for pedestrians.

That said it is still a very safe and strong little car:

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/ncap/ ... 2002-06-01

It is very hard to legislate for pedestrian safety - trying to predict where a pedestrian will end up in a collision is not an exact science due to the huge number of variables in a real world accident. The main thing is to drive safely and to try to anticipate both traffic and people's movement around the car.

One hopes bmw will fit the extra items mentioned as standard instead of as options to overcome the main criticisms.
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BeepEe
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:27 am
Location: Belgium

Re: NCAP rating

Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:55 am

Driving assistance package if You are concerned with risks for pedestrians and You drive a lot in city area's ....

Functional descriptions:
The video-based Active Cruise Control maintains a constant speed and distance from 0 up to 140 km/h without an intervention of the driver.

The traffic jam assistant control the car autonomously up to a speed of 40 km/h during traffic jams. The traffic jam assist function not only controls following distance but also keeps the vehicle on track by providing active steering input.

Pedestrian and vehicle collision warning with braking function. The system detects vehicles driving ahead and, at speeds of up to 60 km/h, also persons who are on a possible collision course. In an identified hazard situation, the driver is warned by means of visual and acoustic signals. In order to shorten the stopping distance, the braking system is simultaneously preconditioned. Furthermore, at speeds of up to 60 km/h an emergency braking maneuver with medium deceleration is also activated in order to reduce speed and draw the driver’s attention to the critical situation. City collision warning with braking function feature for pedestrians helps to prevent accidents from occurring with pedestrians and minimizes the risk of passenger injury in an collision
Speed limit information shows the respective permitted maximum speed

agj
Posts: 155
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Location: Mons (Belgium)

Re: NCAP rating

Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:03 am

i3me wrote:An i3 need not be resubmitted by BMW for crash testing if the only changes are in the standard specs, ie that a rear seatbelt warning and the speed notification system are made standard equipment. The i3 will receive the 5 star rating starting from the VIN for which it is valid.
It already has good NCAP scores and nothing need be re-engineerd to achieve the 5 star rating :)
It seems that BMW Belgium already reacted!
The next day the Euro NCAP results went public, I called my BMW i agent because I wanted to add the Driving Assistant Plus option. I was ready to pay for it.
Barely an hour after, he sent me the revised purchase order back with the option added. To my surprise, in addition to the requested option, the PO also showed a discount (ref code ZI3) equivalent to the price of the DA+. I am not sure the rear belt warning is included, but it turns out that BMW is offering the pedestrian safety feature for free!

The only doubt I have, is that the new PO doesn't mention any delivery date anymore ...

I'll give the salesman a break for a few days and I'll come back to him on that next week.
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Coachen
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:34 am
Location: Norway

Re: NCAP rating

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:31 am

Regards the pedestrian warning system, will this work at all sides of the car?
If I am backing up, will the Driving assistant warn/stop me from hitting someone behind me?
If so the Parking assistant camera wont be needed anymore.

Waitingi3
Posts: 27
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Location: Tucson Arizona

Re: NCAP rating

Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:08 pm

Coachen, Would you really prefer to trust some electronic gizmo to detect that kid behind your car or your eyes on a screen with a picture?

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