Tobias
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Next model after 120ah i3

Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:21 am

At my local BMW dealer last week, I mentioned to the service agent that I was considering changing my 94ah REX for the new 120ah model, which here in the UK no longer has the REX option. She said that she had heard BMW is phasing out the REX altogether in 2019 and that the 120ah is a stop gap while they re-engineer to use the engine space for yet more battery capacity.

Any truth in this?
Imperial Blue i3 120ah 2019, replacing 2017 i3 94ah Rex, which replaced 2014 i3 60ah Rex.

CharonPDX
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:23 am

Not that BMW has said publicly - and a random service agent at a dealership is very unlikely to have inside information on this.

theothertom
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:26 pm

Highly unlikely. I seriously doubt the i3 will be made after 2020 model year. BMW is moving their EV technology to more conventional cars (4 series, X3, etc).

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MKH
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:19 pm

Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch Rial X10-i wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

alohart
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:31 pm

theothertom wrote:I seriously doubt the i3 will be made after 2020 model year.
For what it's worth, I read that a BMW exec or board member stated that the i3 will be one of five BMW EV's available during the 2021 model year.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

jadnashuanh
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:29 pm

BMW didn't really want the REx in the first place, but marketing won out. As battery capacity increases, you could make a good case for eliminating the complexity and weight. Most of this depends on the infrastructure of CCS units rolling out, which, seems to be going faster in Europe than in the USA, but we may be catching up. Lots of plans, but in Europe, there's more government encouragement for it...not so much in the USA with the current administration which would prefer you use fossil fuels, it seems. that may change in a few years, but that will put us further behind the rest of the world.
Jim DeBruycker
2014 i3 BEV, 2021 X5 45e
(The i3 will be sold soon, <17K-miles, interested?)

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MKH
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:59 am

I think economics plays an important part in getting an infrastructure of CCS units rolling out. Gas prices in the UK and EU are $5.50 to $5.80 a gallon US equivalent - which makes alternatives attractive - and pushes the market. Auto manufacturing is a "world market" even for US based entities like Ford. As the world market moves toward BEV's and PEV's, Volvo as an example, I think the infrastructure will follow. Slower in the US not only because of lack of "Govt interest", but because most EV adopters in the US charge at home, vs the EU, where public charging is a necessity, because home-charging is often not an available option. There are 4 EVs in my neighborhood, and all the owners charge at home - and none have ever used a public charging station, even when they had a free year's access come with their car. Contrast that with the two relatives I have, one in England, and one in Germany with EVs, both with at least two or three friends with EVs - and only one of that entire group charges at home - all the rest rely solely on public charging stations and/or charging stations at work, as they live in Terrace flats. town-homes, or apartments, with only on-street parking available.

Locally Walgreen's Pharmacies looked at installing CCS units at all their urban locations as a customer service, and did some test-market installs. There is one a half-mile from my house, and I know the Pharmacist at that location. She says their CCS is used maybe once or twice a week at most - sometimes only once or twice a month, which is apparently typical for their entire test-market, which pretty much killed the idea of them expanding that program.

What I'd like to see happen, is the Federal law that prevents States from permitting automotive service stations or other commercial establishments for serving motor vehicle users to be constructed or located on the rights-of-way of the interstate system, be overturned, and national chains be allowed to bid on access, under strict rules - one of which would be to provide on-site CCS units . Some States are already privatizing highway rest-stops - and other States could follow suit, and also mandate CCS units at each.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch Rial X10-i wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

jadnashuanh
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:05 pm

Private businesses won't install charging facilities unless there's some incentive, whether that's from the government or for their business plan. Right now, at least in the US, there's little government incentive to install one. California is providing lots of incentives, and some other places are as well, but there's little coming from the top, and that hurts the cause. The judgement on VW provides a bunch of money to do this, and some of this is rolling out. But, there is no national guidance or direction, as they'd rather you use fossil fuels - they fuel campaigns with more money.

As more and more EVs show up, there is likely going to be a change in thought, at least at the commercial front. some of this is related to car manufacturers offering free programs for a period with new car purchases. In that, people get used to not having to pay to charge away from home.

FWIW, with my local electrical rates, it's still about 1/4 of the cost per mile for fuel of my ICE. Paying for it commercially, the savings goes way down, but it's still there. I also factor in that the EV doens't require mufflers, oil changes, etc., all things related to a combustion engine (but somewhat diluted if you choose the REx).

Here's hoping that charging becomes easy, fast, and fairly priced everywhere. It's going to take awhile.
Jim DeBruycker
2014 i3 BEV, 2021 X5 45e
(The i3 will be sold soon, <17K-miles, interested?)

TheMK
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:35 pm

The CCS chargers in my area with the exception of one all have some sort of business implication tied to them. We have plenty of Nissan dealers that have CHAdeMO/CCS units to help them sell new LEAFs. There's are free, though I've noticed they don't care about the condition of the equipment. We also have the EVGo stations (which gouge you on price!). The government has a couple of miscellaneous charging programs, but all of them are more focused on workplace charging. One of the programs did create a chain of Chargepoint DC chargers up and down a major freeway, but the gas chain that operates them gets to take home a profit, assuming the repair costs aren't too high. The exception was a city government that used an excess in the budget to install a DC unit, this is also the same city that also has electric buses, so my guess is they eventually hope to use it to charge up the cities EVs. This one is free, unless you happen to pay taxes in that city.

Electrify America promises to make it possible for me to do a battery only drive to a destination I go about 2-3 times a year, but for now REx worked great! We drove by the sites listed in PlugShare and the Electrify America website, and didn't find any hint of construction yet, so we'll see how it pans out. I also hope the rates are reasonable, It would be a shame if buying gasoline for my REx was cheaper than charging!


Now, to get back to the original topic. The i3 is an aging vehicle, but it has been refreshed now. You can get an i3S with a battery that's twice the capacity of the original i3. I think it's reasonable to see it last until 2020/2021, especially since we're already in the 2019 MY. i3 sales are still fairly strong in Europe, and since it's already USA DOT/NHTSA certified, unless import duties get super crazy high, I don't see any reason why they would phase it out here. Using the empty REx space for more batteries seems like a little bit of a stretch, but BMW could very well put something there. I like the fact that BMW has been committed to increasing the battery capacity of the years. Hopefully somewhere along the line I will be able to buy a refurb (or even new) battery cell pack for my i3, giving it longer range. Much of the i3s technology has been slowly integrated into other BMW models. I think part of the i3's interesting design and shape has something to do with the high cost of CFRP. It's likely that a next gen BMW EV will not have a pure CFRP passenger compartment, probably something more akin to the new 7-series' "Carbon core". I'd like to be proven wrong on that, and that BMW is cooking up a worthy successor to the i3 (on a dedicated all electric platform), but it seems like their current direction ATM is to have more G-series chassis, and using the CLAR architecture to electrify existing ICE cars. It seems like a lot of automakers have gone in to "wait and see" mode, especially with the low gas prices here in the USA, and consumer demand for SUVs and other large-ish vehicles. 2020 will be here before we know it, and we will just have to see what happens then.

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MKH
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Re: Next model after 120ah i3

Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:11 am

Here's hoping that charging becomes easy, fast, and fairly priced everywhere. It's going to take awhile.
Hear, Hear! :D

And I think it will come. We are still "early adopters". In the next 5 years several major car manufacturers will be approaching 50% of their line-up being BEV's or PEVs (including a raft of SUVs). All closing in on that magic 200 mile per charge range, Then the "average" buyer will start looking at an electric as a main-stream choice, and the number of electric cars on the road will push the spread of CCS's.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch Rial X10-i wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

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