2014 Yes or No...

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Away2Maine

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
6
So I plan to jump into the EV world via an i3 (preferred) or Leaf (if necessary) in the near future. Researching these two options has been a little challenging when it comes to battery degradation. I've searched and perused this forum, but the common and short words of my inquiry have ended with very few results. Here are a coupe questions for those in the know...

1) On a Leaf, I know that I can "see" battery degradation in the bars on the far right of the instrument panel. Does such an easy visual that represents degradation exist for the i3?

2) I have ready several pieces that indicate one should NOT purchase a 2014 i3, but then again, I've seen several responses that indicate these aren't the problem-children they have been made out to be. Understanding that anything can be hit or miss, what is the opinion of 2014s on this forum generally?

3) Other than the obvious extension of range and maintenance, what would you all say are the pros and cons of the REx?

Thanks in advance!

Peace...Away...
 
On any EV, your actual range will vary by how you drive it, the terrain, and the temperature. My 2014's indicated range can vary over 30-miles summer to winter, not counting terrain or driving conditions.

When deciding what car to buy, you need a realistic idea of what your real need for range is. In my case, 95% of my needs are less than 20-miles/day, so even with being inefficient in the really cold, middle of a cold spell, I've still got more than enough.

The i3 will display the expected range to empty left. Just like on an ICE, that may or may not be accurate. It bases that calculation on what happened the last 18-miles that the car was driven. So, checking one out on a dealer's lot may be quite inaccurate based on real time, as it will likely have lots of cold starts (HVAC load), and people experimenting with it using full acceleration.

THere are some ways to get an approximation of the battery health, but that isn't perfect, either. The dealerships have a special procedure they run to determine the health of the battery. Supposedly takes about a day to perform. Right now, mine's indicating 46-miles, but, my brother-in-law had been driving it short hops with long delays between...worst case situation as it was quite cold when he was doing it. This time of year, I generally see a low of about 60, and in the summer, I've seen over 80-miles. It just depends. Since June 2014 when I bought it, it's dropped about 5-miles of range. Still, way more than my normal needs.

Your needs would depend a lot on when and where you can recharge, and how far you need it to go.

Some feel they must have the REx. My thought was why carry around that extra weight for something that may only get used once or twice a year and requires all of the maintenance hassles of an ICE: buying gasoline, engine oil, filter, muffler, etc. Yes, some people take theirs on long trips, but the hassle isn't worth it to me. If it was going to be your only car, you might want to consider borrowing an ICE for a longer trip or renting one. Everyone has their hassle limits, and to me, it isn't worth it. Not everyone is in the same situation...only you can decide.

FWIW, mine has been pretty reliable. I had an issue with the charge plug release, but that's the only real thing. They did have a service campaign on a few things to resolve some issues, but those never actually caused me an issue.
 
Hey there!

Thanks much for the detailed response. I did leave a few important things out of the intro to the question, my apologies.

My typical daily commute is around 25-30 miles with an additional 10 or so on occasion. So, the range needs aren't really that significant, but they could be in the winter months as I understand it. Generally, my sense has been that the i3 has less battery degradation than the Leaf and is also less impacted by the colder day driving.

As a homeowner, I can do L1 charging anytime in the garage. I would also consider running a dedicated 220 for L2 since the cost is somewhat reasonable.

I don't disagree with the limited value of the REx based on my range needs as indicated above. However, it is really, really, hard to find those without that can be accessed in Indy. The midwest is not necessarily the hotbed of EV sales as you likely know.

The intent of this vehicle would be the daily commute and other around town (or suburbs) driving. We have a couple other options available for longer trip needs.

So the 2014 would seem to fit my needs just fine, but are the "concerns" and "issues" folks mentioned on this model year really as prevalent as it seems?
 
I'm a sample of one. Keep in mind, many people go onto forums when they have a problem. I joined because I was interested in understanding the car. So, problems tend to get exaggerated. Mine was one of the first built for the USA, so, if anyone was going to have infant mortality or other issues, it's a likely candidate. They didn't really exhibit themselves on mine. Doesn't mean it still couldn't!

The i3 is a better engineered car than the Leaf. Liquid cooling for the batteries makes a huge difference in the longevity. And, it's more fun to drive.
 
jadnashuanh said:
I'm a sample of one. Keep in mind, many people go onto forums when they have a problem. I joined because I was interested in understanding the car. So, problems tend to get exaggerated. Mine was one of the first built for the USA, so, if anyone was going to have infant mortality or other issues, it's a likely candidate.
The above is 100% applicable to me as well. Mine got a catastrophic AC failure at 5 years old with a $23 THOUSAND repair quote. As it says above, this is an exaggerated problem. The real quote was a few hundred less than 23 THOUSAND dollars. BMW offer to help with $2K on a car whose book value was $16K.

The i3 is a better engineered car than the Leaf. Liquid cooling for the batteries makes a huge difference in the longevity. And, it's more fun to drive.
This part is also true.

That is, I agree 100% with jadnashuanh, but he left out the part about the Sword of Damocles with BMW (and MB) excel in abundantly providing.
 
Away2Maine –

I have an early-production (04/2014) BEV which I've owned since new and am still thrilled with 52K miles later.

Yes, I've had plenty of visits to the dealer over the years but never for something trip-ending (knocking on wood here). However, a friend purchased their 2014 REx at the same time and has dealt with more than one drivetrain error that ended in a tow. He didn't escape the flatbeds when he upgraded to a 2019 REx and again was stranded with a drivetrain error.

If you don't need the extra range, why carry that 300 lb. motor around all the time with its needs for oil, filter, and spark plug service, not to mention the associated hardware that are just extra points of failure? Keep it simple with the BEV.

Five months after the new-car warranty expired I had problems with the charge-door popper, the charge cable lock solenoid (prevented DCFC start) and motor mount / control arm cracking. BMW covered 95% of the multi-thousand repair cost.

I mention this because 2014s have to be near the end of extended warranties and limits of BMW goodwill repair.

Get a thorough inspection before purchase, best if you can find someone that knows the i3... which is likely to be someone at a dealer as I don't think many independent shops get to see these cars.
 
I'm also in Indy and drove home my 2014 Rex from Minneapolis about a month ago. I LOVE IT! You can't beat the value on a 2014, IMO. I was mainly shopping Chevy Bolts and Teslas, but I got a really well-appointed 2014 i3 with most options I wanted and a set of winter tires/wheels for $12k. Man, the savings alone over those other two cars is just crazy.

Yes, buying used is a risk. I'm no expert, but it seems there were some common issues with 2014's, but if they've either been fixed or the car has 40k+ miles on it without trouble with the below, you're probably out of the woods:

  • Plastic motor mounts and smaller/weaker bolts
  • High voltage battery cables
  • Fuel door release
  • Rex generic "drivetrain" error (sometimes cheap fuel pump, sometimes expensive total replacement)
  • Strut dust covers/boots

There is a way to check what that car says is the maximum battery capacity left (Google "Batt.Kapp.Max"), but there's a lot of disagreement about how accurate that is. I'd still check if I were you, and if that value was under 15 I'd be leery of buying.

Personally, the Rex was a must for me. My commute is typically under 40 miles RT, so even on cold winter mornings when my max battery range is 50 miles, I'd be totally fine. That said, I've already twice had to use the Rex: once when a work meeting was scheduled out in Crawfordsville, about a 70 mile RT for me, and a second time when I had to make the commute to work, then almost immediately drive my daughter to an activity about 15 miles away with no charging available. If you're 99% sure your winter driving will either be limited to 50 miles OR you'll have access to charging at destination every time OR you'll be able to use an ICE vehicle on long driving days, then the BEV is most definitely cheaper and more reliable. That said, I couldn't make those guarantees and the Rex has already been a necessity for me.

Oh, winter tires are a must in the Midwest. If you can find a used car that includes them, it'll save you a ton of money. You can buy a set for around $600, but unless you want to pay a shop to mount them for you every season, you'll also want an extra set of wheels which will cost another $800 minimum. I was really fortunate to find a car that included a set.
 
abeln2672 said:
I'm also in Indy and drove home my 2014 Rex from Minneapolis about a month ago. I LOVE IT! You can't beat the value on a 2014, IMO. I was mainly shopping Chevy Bolts and Teslas, but I got a really well-appointed 2014 i3 with most options I wanted and a set of winter tires/wheels for $12k. Man, the savings alone over those other two cars is just crazy.

Yes, buying used is a risk. I'm no expert, but it seems there were some common issues with 2014's, but if they've either been fixed or the car has 40k+ miles on it without trouble with the below, you're probably out of the woods:

  • Plastic motor mounts and smaller/weaker bolts
  • High voltage battery cables
  • Fuel door release
  • Rex generic "drivetrain" error (sometimes cheap fuel pump, sometimes expensive total replacement)
  • Strut dust covers/boots
Your list seems to omit infrequent failures of the AC compressor self destruction, but which deliver $20K repair quotes.

In financial circles, there is a factor called alpha that relates expected risk to expected return. The concept is that higher risks are justified, positive alpha, only when correspondingly higher returns are expected. Your list are things with poor, or negative, "alpha" on the i3. The higher the risk of a failure item may be justified by an easy inexpensive repair, or, conversely the lower risk of a failure may be irrelevant in the case of horrendously outrageous repair cost. The catastrophic failure possible with the AC would have to make its alpha completely terrible, perhaps more negative than any other item on your list.
 
Alan, you're a one-man wrecking crew, and can be counted on to show up and spin this morbid tale whenever the slightest crack presents itself.

And don't get me wrong, what happened to you is awful, I'm not denying that. Your ire is justified.

But where are all of the other cases of the failed AC? My recollection is you've mentioned one other that you're aware of from around the same time as yours, and two subsequent who were partially reimbursed by BMW.

All I'm getting at is that the volume of your warning doesn't seem to match the incidence of occurrence. Of course I'm knocking on wood as I write this!!
 
eNate said:
But where are all of the other cases of the failed AC?

1) The day I took my i3 into the dealer with the clicking noise from the AC, a service writer (not mine) met me in the drive bay and asked me if it was my AC. I said yes, the AC is not blowing cold. He said he just heard that clicking from another i3 the previous week and hoped mine was not the same problem, as it was an expensive repair. I asked how high? He said not worth repairing. He was hopeful mine was not the same issue.

2) When I got the $22K+ repair quote, I called the other BMW dealer in town and asked to speak with the service manager. I told him I just got an absurdly high repair quote from Chapman and asked him if he wanted provide me with a competing quote (even though the Scottsdale dealer is known to generally be higher as they do have a slightly higher hourly shop rate). He asked if it was an AC problem. I said yes. He asked if the quote I got was well over $10K? I said it was more than double that. He said he has also seen that problem, and he would not be able to help, as BWM would not help, and there was no way he could get the service done for less than the book value of the car.

3 & 4) There have been two other direct reports of this failure in this site, one for a 2014 and one for a 2015.

?) The i3 Facebook page has a few more references to this, but some are a bit ambiguous to location, so I have no solid count, nor do I know if any of these are duplicates.

I would say at a bare minimum, there have been at least three cases in the Phoenix AZ area in the same year. I doubt there have been 1000 i3s sold in the Phoenix area. That is a terrible percentage (0.3%) for something this atrocious. Maybe the problem is greatly exacerbated by extreme desert heat and Phoenix (Las Vegas, Palm Springs, etc.) has most of the cases.

BMW could have honored my request to pay my actual cash damages (loss of fair market value of the car, about $8K), and then I would have little reason to complain. I might still be upset that I had to replace my beloved car, but I probably would be driving a new i3. I might still be mentioning the issue here or there, but I certainly would only do so also making it clear that BMW acted honorably and made me whole. A check for $2000 marked as goodwill was not adequate.
 
i3Alan said:
abeln2672 said:
I'm also in Indy and drove home my 2014 Rex from Minneapolis about a month ago. I LOVE IT! You can't beat the value on a 2014, IMO. I was mainly shopping Chevy Bolts and Teslas, but I got a really well-appointed 2014 i3 with most options I wanted and a set of winter tires/wheels for $12k. Man, the savings alone over those other two cars is just crazy.

Yes, buying used is a risk. I'm no expert, but it seems there were some common issues with 2014's, but if they've either been fixed or the car has 40k+ miles on it without trouble with the below, you're probably out of the woods:

  • Plastic motor mounts and smaller/weaker bolts
  • High voltage battery cables
  • Fuel door release
  • Rex generic "drivetrain" error (sometimes cheap fuel pump, sometimes expensive total replacement)
  • Strut dust covers/boots
Your list seems to omit infrequent failures of the AC compressor self destruction, but which deliver $20K repair quotes.

In financial circles, there is a factor called alpha that relates expected risk to expected return. The concept is that higher risks are justified, positive alpha, only when correspondingly higher returns are expected. Your list are things with poor, or negative, "alpha" on the i3. The higher the risk of a failure item may be justified by an easy inexpensive repair, or, conversely the lower risk of a failure may be irrelevant in the case of horrendously outrageous repair cost. The catastrophic failure possible with the AC would have to make its alpha completely terrible, perhaps more negative than any other item on your list.

Really sorry to hear that you were one of the unlucky ones with this issue :-( I saw a post on this forum with instructions on fashioning a protective screen for the compressor, so I actually did that a couple weeks after buying my used Rex. The theory was rock strikes causing the failures, but I'm not sure that's been proven. Either way, I can't imagine how all this felt, so I don't begrudge you warning others. It's definitely infrequent as you point out, but it's a risk nonetheless. Same as a catastrophic CVT failure is a risk with a Nissan and certain Hondas, regardless of how reliable they are on the whole (my Altima gave me 175k trouble-free miles before I sold it this month). Stinks if you're in the 0.3%.
 
Wow...step away for a few days and all kinds of interesting things might pop up. Thanks for the ongoing conversation.

The reason for stepping away a few days included all that went into pickup up a 2014 i3 BEV from the State of Washington and getting the process underway remotely. The car has a very clean Carfax and the pictures and follow-up information from the dealership gives me no significant pause with this purchase. I expect it to be delivered sometime in the next 7-10 days and cannot wait to plug and play.

Once it is here, I will certainly begin the Batt.Kapp.Max process after giving it a little time under my normal charging and driving procedures.
 
Congrats, and a second congrats on the BEV. I think the REX is a safety blanket many are unwilling to give up, especially on 60Ah models. It's certainly refreshing to have no gas engine to worry about.

Where are you shipping the car to?

The battery capacity readout has its inaccuracies, but doesn't really need to be "broken in" by sensible driving the same as when trying to get an accurate range estimate. It is supposedly most accurate after a full discharge - charge cycle, but I've found mine to be stable even though my battery tends to live life partially charged.
 
abeln2672 said:
I saw a post on this forum with instructions on fashioning a protective screen for the compressor, so I actually did that a couple weeks after buying my used Rex. The theory was rock strikes causing the failures, but I'm not sure that's been proven.
The screen protects the A/C condenser behind the air intake grill below the front bumper, not the compressor that's mounted next to the drive motor near the rear axle. The compressor could disintegrate internally which could spread shrapnel throughout the A/C and battery pack plumbing resulting in a very expensive repair. Fortunately, this seems to be quite rare.

There's no connection between a rock strike that punctures the condenser and compressor failure as far as I know. A punctured condenser must be replaced which isn't an inexpensive repair, so protecting it with a screen might be worth doing as long as air flow isn't reduced so much that poor A/C performance or drive motor, motor electronics, or REx motor overheating might result in hot weather.
 
eNate said:
Congrats, and a second congrats on the BEV. I think the REX is a safety blanket many are unwilling to give up, especially on 60Ah models. It's certainly refreshing to have no gas engine to worry about.

Where are you shipping the car to?

The battery capacity readout has its inaccuracies, but doesn't really need to be "broken in" by sensible driving the same as when trying to get an accurate range estimate. It is supposedly most accurate after a full discharge - charge cycle, but I've found mine to be stable even though my battery tends to live life partially charged.

My goal was to get completely away from ICE, so I was happy to find this very nice piece. I absolutely understand the benefit of REx, but wanted to experience the full feel and the lower maintenance benefit of an EV life. My wife still cruises in a sexy minivan, so we always have a long range option at the ready. It is shipping from a high-end independent dealer in Washington State to Indianapolis sometime this week. I have the Lysol wipes at the ready.

Good to know that the battery capacity and range estimate processes aren't necessarily the same. From a distance the only real way I had to estimate battery capacity was through the range estimate provided by the seller. He said he was seeing around 60 miles in range at full charge, so I computed this to be around 75% capacity, sneaking up on the warranty figure of 70% with about 17 months left under capacity warranty. I believe that one BMS update has been done and know that there might be another in it's future before even beginning any discussion with BMW on replacement (if I even get to that point). I've also read some references to the 12v battery having some impact in the range estimate, which is interesting.

Looking forward to the i3's arrival so I can begin playing and researching all these topics in person!
 
FWIW, after driving my i3 enough to purge my brother-in-laws driving history, it went from 46-miles to 68-miles at around freezing temperatures. Driving style and duration of the trip can make a significant difference in the indicated miles to empty.

Enjoy your new car...hope all's well for the long-term.

I'm trying to ween myself to a single vehicle, and am seriously considering a 2021 X5 hybrid. Enough battery range for my normal stuff, and the gasoline tank for those other occasions. Now, in all EV mode, it will be sluggish compared to the i3 as it has a smaller electric motor and weighs more, but put it in a mode where the motor turns on, and you can haul ass past an i3, even from the stoplight, as the motor gives it that instant torque and it has more that twice the Hp, and doesn't weigh 2x as much.
 
jadnashuanh said:
FWIW, after driving my i3 enough to purge my brother-in-laws driving history, it went from 46-miles to 68-miles at around freezing temperatures. Driving style and duration of the trip can make a significant difference in the indicated miles to empty.

Enjoy your new car...hope all's well for the long-term.

I'm trying to ween myself to a single vehicle, and am seriously considering a 2021 X5 hybrid. Enough battery range for my normal stuff, and the gasoline tank for those other occasions. Now, in all EV mode, it will be sluggish compared to the i3 as it has a smaller electric motor and weighs more, but put it in a mode where the motor turns on, and you can haul ass past an i3, even from the stoplight, as the motor gives it that instant torque and it has more that twice the Hp, and doesn't weigh 2x as much.

Good to hear that the range estimate will be more inline with my personal driving style. This may make it better, but it may also make it worse. This depends on the day and my mood!

Good, bad, or otherwise, this will be an extra vehicle for us. My daily driver currently is a GL450 that is necessary to handle our camper and I'm pretty sure the i3 can't 'pull' that off. If/When we get out of the camping hobby, the Mercedes will go away.
 
Congrats on your i3! I also have a 2014 BEV that I've owned for a year and a half. In the beginning, I was worried about the health of my battery. Not now. There are some days that my GOM (Guess-O-Meter) will display 90 mile range in Eco Pro +. Not bad for almost 75k miles on the car and the fact that I "drive it like I stole it" many times. My commute to work is 19 miles one way and about 75% on freeways - where I drive "slightly" faster than the posted speed limit. I never sweat with range anxiety anymore.

All that to say, enjoy the car! It's fun! We now drive it so much, that I have to remember to drive my pickup every once in a while to keep it lubricated. It is one of the most practical commuter cars made.

Also, get a Level 2 charger at home if you can. It will make your life easier.
 
jlangham said:
Congrats on your i3! I also have a 2014 BEV that I've owned for a year and a half. In the beginning, I was worried about the health of my battery. Not now. There are some days that my GOM (Guess-O-Meter) will display 90 mile range in Eco Pro +. Not bad for almost 75k miles on the car and the fact that I "drive it like I stole it" many times. My commute to work is 19 miles one way and about 75% on freeways - where I drive "slightly" faster than the posted speed limit. I never sweat with range anxiety anymore.

All that to say, enjoy the car! It's fun! We now drive it so much, that I have to remember to drive my pickup every once in a while to keep it lubricated. It is one of the most practical commuter cars made.

Also, get a Level 2 charger at home if you can. It will make your life easier.

Good to hear you have enjoyed yours as much as I hope to enjoy mine. My biggest challenge right now is not buying accessories before the car arrives via transport from the State of Washington. It left Washington last Thursday and hopefully will arrive sometime very soon (today was the originally intended date, but...?).

It is arriving with only 1 remote, so I've done the appropriate research on this site and others and may drop the coin to get a 2nd after it arrives. I've already ordered a fob cover to either keep from scratching it too much, or cover the scratches that already exist. I've narrowed down the L2 options to a couple and need to determine if I want to add a second meter for the i3 and participate in the local utilities program, or just do a self install of the L2 (not rocket science...but my son is studying to be one so that helps). Patience is a virtue...so they say!?
 
Away2Maine –

Congratulations on your 2014 i3 purchase! BMW did such a good job at making an EV that is fun to drive – I hope you enjoy the miles ahead.

Some thoughts and an anecdote – anecdote first... My insurance took a big jump this year, way more than one might expect for a six-year-old car with no claims (2014 i3 BEV, original owner). Had a chat with my insurance agent and we figured out that I was paying for more miles annually than I was actually driving. My agent needed to establish a baseline for my mileage and asked when the last time I was in for service within the last 12 months.

"None", I replied.

"Well what about oil changes?"

"It's 100% electric", I answered.

In 16 months I've not been to any kind of service!

Have things gone wrong on the car since I bought it new in 2014? Oh, sure. But everything was covered under the original warranty or by BMW goodwill. Knocking on sustainably-sourced open-grain eucalyptus veneer, things seem to have settled down on the reliability front.

If you wish to prevent the prior owner from being able to set preconditioning or potentially see your i3's location, download the current BMW Connected app, log in, and provide your contact info and VIN so the vehicle is now associated with you.

Below are places where user data lives and ways to reset them. Note, there are no undos for these, so export user profiles to a USB stick first (if you think you might want to go back).


Delete the prior owner's data:
This is a master reset, and this option can be found in a number of different submenus. Here’s one place to find it.
– From the home menu, scroll to "Settings" and press the iDrive controller
– Press the physical “Option” button in the center console
– Scroll to "Delete all personal data"and press the iDrive controller, you will be then asked to confirm the delete
In my experience, this reset wipes everything in one step, including defined button presets, mirror positions and Settings menu preferences as well as the individual settings listed below. I can’t recall if this resets for the key fob that’s in the car with you at the time or if it resets for all key fobs.


Reset driving statistics:
This is useful if you want to reset the average speed and consumption that the car has calculated since it was last reset. I don’t believe this affects the Guess-O-Meter and its 18-mile buffer.
– From the home menu, scroll to "Vehicle Info" and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to "Trip Computer" and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to "Reset" and press the iDrive controller
– Click on “Yes” to confirm the reset


Forget all previously paired Bluetooth devices:
– From the home menu, scroll to "Settings" and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to "Connections" and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to "Bluetooth" and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to the first Bluetooth device in the list
– Press the physical “Option” button in the center console
– Scroll to “Remove device” and press the iDrive controller


Forget the last destinations:
– From the home menu, scroll to “Navigation” and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to “Last Destinations” and press the iDrive controller.
– Press the physical “Option” button in the center console
– Scroll to “Delete all last destinations” and press the iDrive controller


Forget the last charging stations:
– From the home menu, scroll to “Navigation” and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to “Last Charging Stations” and press the iDrive controller.
– Press the physical “Option” button in the center console
– Scroll to “Delete all” and press the iDrive controller


Clear driver profiles that tied to the key fob:
– From the home menu, scroll to "Settings" and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to “Profiles” and press the iDrive controller
– Scroll to the profile you wish to reset
– Press the physical “Option” button in the center console
– Scroll to “Reset Current Profile” and press the iDrive controller
 
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