Fordychap
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:58 am

Re: bmw i3 important question

Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:42 pm

Deutsch100 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:39 am
@Fordychap....your car is amazing. I am on i3S number two with the 120Ah battery, and a full charge almost never even shows 153 miles. The BMWUSA website shows up to 153 miles on a charge. Our weather here in Southern California is nirvana for an EV. I never hard accelerate and I use regen brakes for all stops (I almost never even touch my brakes). I guess I have had two "bad" i3s then :( I drive most of the time in EcoPro, but if the weather is cool and I do not need A/C, I will use EcoPro+.
Hi @Deutsch100, greetings from the soggy NW of England...
I feel terrible in highlighting what I have taken as “normal” for range with our relatively “new” to us i3. I am truly puzzled. It’s a third-hand (we’re the third owners) ex-BMW demonstrator...
I’m not at all alone in the “remarkable range” thing though - I didn’t think it was that remarkable...
This afternoon I relayed the gist of this forum post trail to a friend (a 94Ah i3 owner who isn’t on here (he “can’t be ars*d” !) - and his car was one reason we looked at an i3). He also wondered what the cause was for an apparent lack of range of the same car - but in the US.
He gets almost 150mi out of his 94Ah!
I tried attaching a screenshot of the dash earlier (to show range) - but the forum post didn’t like images from iCloud for some reason.
We both have the standard i3 - not the S.
The only difference really is the battery capacity and age. - his is a year older.
Mine is on 20” wheels - not my spec. - it’s just how it came. His is on 19” wheels.
I put the car on charge when back home today - and when it was finished - I unplugged the charger and because of our conversation- I fired it up to look at the new predicted range - based on my last journey/s.
Comfort mode - 165mi
Eco Pro mode - 179mi (soft limit set to 75mph)
Eco Pro+ mode - 196mi (soft limit set to 56mph)
We always precondition the car while it’s on the charger, and we use A/C or seat heat as needed - because we’re not into the hair shirt wearing yet.
It’s nearly always in Eco Pro mode.
I don’t get it - why is yours apparently so different?
If you want to compare anything and can think of anything that we can do an A/B test against - then just ask.
When I asked my friend what his average mi/kWh was - he checked and he’s managed 5.3m/kWh, so he must really drive like a saint...
Is it the higher power motor in the S to blame?
Unless you always take a family of four with you everywhere - then I’m stymied.
Regards etc...
BMW i3 BEV - 120Ah, Range Rover Vogue SE - SDV8 4.4 litre Tier 6 diesel, Various tractors...
40kW Solar PV and 100kWh Vanadium Redox Flow Battery for "All Electric" Property - exporting energy to the grid...

Obioban
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 6:16 am

Re: bmw i3 important question

Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:24 pm

Deutsch100 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:03 am
Fordychap wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:25 am
ozan1989 wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:58 pm
I travel 25 thousand km every year. Do you think it makes sense to buy the bmw i3?
I do about 16,000 miles a year in a i3 BEV (120Ah) which is roughly equivalent to you.
It’s more the mix of the journey types you do and where - that is the key.
What type of road, likely average speed, how hilly, and are there chargers available on the way?
Zap-Map and ABRP apps can help you plan an unfamiliar route.
Over 80% of my daily mileage is under half of the range of the i3. Depending upon season, in winter that full range is 145 mi and in summer - closer to 190 mi. That is mixed driving on mostly B and A class UK roads with a few blasts along highway/motorways.
You will see then that it is rare that I charge anywhere other than at home (32A, 240v, 7.4kW single phase - with a 40A RCB).

If I do, it’s usually due to a trip that’s say a 250-300 mile round trip in a day. It’s rare these days for me to do more than that in a day without staying overnight, and then even a “granny charger” (13A domestic socket) will do at a pinch. Overnights in rural areas - I always take a 20m extension cable reel (unwind it fully!!) and then I can ALWAYS get some kind of charge.

If I do have to take a quick charge - it’s preferably on a 50kW CCS rapid charger to just give me a slight top up while I grab a coffee. Takes about 15 min to get 50-60 miles. I only take what charge I need to get home with say 10-20 miles reserve.
I always carry the “granny” charger and a 7.4kw single phase Type 2 cable with me in a waterproof bag in the frunk.
I haven’t bothered to buy a three-phase 11kW/22kW Type 2 cable because the i3 internal electronics will only do 11kW anyway. The difference between 7.4kW and 11kW when out and about is relatively small, and I’d rather spend 20 minutes finding a 50kW CCS DC charger to use for 30 mins...
Doing that has also introduced me to some new places off the normal routes that may have other nice things - like shops or cafes...
So in short, unless your mileage is predominantly highway and always over half the range of the i3 (unless you have workplace charging) - then the i3 is a great car to consider and a hoot to drive.
Lots of astonished ICE car drivers when you leave them standing at the lights....
It’s a “silly grin” type car - and mine is a keeper....
I just do NOT see you can get 145 miles of range in winter and 190 miles in summer. The i3 with the biggest battery....BMW says UP TO 153 miles!!

In warm weather, I am lucky if I get 140-150 miles. And even at 60F or below....my range is usually 100-120 miles. I drive 90% in EcoPro too. I currently have a 2020 i3S and my last BMW was a 2019 i3S. I mean....these ranges seem impossible; I am in Southern California as well! So. Cal might be the most ideal place in the world for an EV. 190 miles of range in the summer?! If this was possible, BMW would not say up to 153 miles.
i3s is less efficient than the regular i3 because of the wider tires and body work-- so you should get less range than him.

Darlouis
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:19 am

Re: bmw i3 important question

Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:00 pm

Very much doubt 2 "bad" i3's involved. Not had my 120AH long (non-S) and seen the range prediction vary. Best I've seen so far predicted is 203 miles after playing around with Eco Pro mode and turning off the ventilation during a local trip and charging when arrived home. Today I started off on a local trip with it only showing 168 miles which was surprising, but when I returned home it was showing 94% SOC and 186 mile predicted range :D . I did switch to Eco pro for a minute or so only and then back in comfort mode switched off the ventilation completely. I find the airflow too strong sometimes but might need to adjust the vents or something.

i3S with more power and other differences I'd expect to decrease the range.

I'm quite impressed the indicated range can be higher than the official 188 mile range and from what I hear the range prediction is conservative too. I thought no EV's managed the official figures :D

I saw 153 miles when I first charged the car and thought that'd be about it as saw someone else mention their car at 100% showed a predicted 150 miles.
2020 Capparis white i3

Deutsch100
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: bmw i3 important question

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:19 pm

Fordychap wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:42 pm
Deutsch100 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:39 am
@Fordychap....your car is amazing. I am on i3S number two with the 120Ah battery, and a full charge almost never even shows 153 miles. The BMWUSA website shows up to 153 miles on a charge. Our weather here in Southern California is nirvana for an EV. I never hard accelerate and I use regen brakes for all stops (I almost never even touch my brakes). I guess I have had two "bad" i3s then :( I drive most of the time in EcoPro, but if the weather is cool and I do not need A/C, I will use EcoPro+.
Hi @Deutsch100, greetings from the soggy NW of England...
I feel terrible in highlighting what I have taken as “normal” for range with our relatively “new” to us i3. I am truly puzzled. It’s a third-hand (we’re the third owners) ex-BMW demonstrator...
I’m not at all alone in the “remarkable range” thing though - I didn’t think it was that remarkable...
This afternoon I relayed the gist of this forum post trail to a friend (a 94Ah i3 owner who isn’t on here (he “can’t be ars*d” !) - and his car was one reason we looked at an i3). He also wondered what the cause was for an apparent lack of range of the same car - but in the US.
He gets almost 150mi out of his 94Ah!
I tried attaching a screenshot of the dash earlier (to show range) - but the forum post didn’t like images from iCloud for some reason.
We both have the standard i3 - not the S.
The only difference really is the battery capacity and age. - his is a year older.
Mine is on 20” wheels - not my spec. - it’s just how it came. His is on 19” wheels.
I put the car on charge when back home today - and when it was finished - I unplugged the charger and because of our conversation- I fired it up to look at the new predicted range - based on my last journey/s.
Comfort mode - 165mi
Eco Pro mode - 179mi (soft limit set to 75mph)
Eco Pro+ mode - 196mi (soft limit set to 56mph)
We always precondition the car while it’s on the charger, and we use A/C or seat heat as needed - because we’re not into the hair shirt wearing yet.
It’s nearly always in Eco Pro mode.
I don’t get it - why is yours apparently so different?
If you want to compare anything and can think of anything that we can do an A/B test against - then just ask.
When I asked my friend what his average mi/kWh was - he checked and he’s managed 5.3m/kWh, so he must really drive like a saint...
Is it the higher power motor in the S to blame?
Unless you always take a family of four with you everywhere - then I’m stymied.
Regards etc...
Thank you. I am stumped too. 99% of the time it is just me in the car. I have never had more than 1 passenger. I have received a few private messages from people with 2018 to 2020 models, and they are getting my kind of 100% full charge readouts (113-125 miles). It is amazing you are getting this, but even looking at official BMW specs....there is not a single document or published article that show this kind of mileage, especially for a 94Ah battery).

FYI...I plugged my car today into my BMW Level II charger and it shows the full charge will be 125 miles :( It is nice today here too...about 72F :)
2020 i3S Rex; Capparis White

Deutsch100
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: bmw i3 important question

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm

Darlouis wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:00 pm
Very much doubt 2 "bad" i3's involved. Not had my 120AH long (non-S) and seen the range prediction vary. Best I've seen so far predicted is 203 miles after playing around with Eco Pro mode and turning off the ventilation during a local trip and charging when arrived home. Today I started off on a local trip with it only showing 168 miles which was surprising, but when I returned home it was showing 94% SOC and 186 mile predicted range :D . I did switch to Eco pro for a minute or so only and then back in comfort mode switched off the ventilation completely. I find the airflow too strong sometimes but might need to adjust the vents or something.

i3S with more power and other differences I'd expect to decrease the range.

I'm quite impressed the indicated range can be higher than the official 188 mile range and from what I hear the range prediction is conservative too. I thought no EV's managed the official figures :D

I saw 153 miles when I first charged the car and thought that'd be about it as saw someone else mention their car at 100% showed a predicted 150 miles.
I too cannot imagine I have had two "bad" i3s. I know the REX adds weight, the i3S has more hp and torque and the wheels are bigger and wider....but still I should be getting more than 120 miles on a full charge and my REX range should be showing 60-70 miles like it used to. When I took delivery of my 2020 i3S in Sept, full charges used to show 145-155 miles. Now they show 119-125 miles. Since I have no error codes, no warnings and they car drives amazingly well...I am going to have to just live with it!!!
2020 i3S Rex; Capparis White

alohart
Posts: 2431
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: bmw i3 important question

Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:20 pm

Deutsch100 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm
I too cannot imagine I have had two "bad" i3s. I know the REX adds weight, the i3S has more hp and torque and the wheels are bigger and wider....but still I should be getting more than 120 miles on a full charge and my REX range should be showing 60-70 miles like it used to.
For what it's worth, the EPA range rating for a 2020 i3S REx is 126 miles on electricity plus 74 miles on gasoline for 200 miles total range. That seems pretty similar to what you're experiencing.

For comparison, a 2020 i3S BEV is rated at 153 miles. Its greater range is due to 100% of its usable battery pack capacity being available whereas only 93.5% of a REx's usable battery pack capacity is available before the REx engine turns on. In addition, a BEV is ~10% lighter than a Rex.

Curiously, the range ratings are identical for the 2020 i3 and i3S despite the i3S being more powerful and having wider tires and bodywork.
Last edited by alohart on Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

Deutsch100
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: bmw i3 important question

Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:47 am

Obioban wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:24 pm
Deutsch100 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:03 am
Fordychap wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:25 am

I do about 16,000 miles a year in a i3 BEV (120Ah) which is roughly equivalent to you.
It’s more the mix of the journey types you do and where - that is the key.
What type of road, likely average speed, how hilly, and are there chargers available on the way?
Zap-Map and ABRP apps can help you plan an unfamiliar route.
Over 80% of my daily mileage is under half of the range of the i3. Depending upon season, in winter that full range is 145 mi and in summer - closer to 190 mi. That is mixed driving on mostly B and A class UK roads with a few blasts along highway/motorways.
You will see then that it is rare that I charge anywhere other than at home (32A, 240v, 7.4kW single phase - with a 40A RCB).

If I do, it’s usually due to a trip that’s say a 250-300 mile round trip in a day. It’s rare these days for me to do more than that in a day without staying overnight, and then even a “granny charger” (13A domestic socket) will do at a pinch. Overnights in rural areas - I always take a 20m extension cable reel (unwind it fully!!) and then I can ALWAYS get some kind of charge.

If I do have to take a quick charge - it’s preferably on a 50kW CCS rapid charger to just give me a slight top up while I grab a coffee. Takes about 15 min to get 50-60 miles. I only take what charge I need to get home with say 10-20 miles reserve.
I always carry the “granny” charger and a 7.4kw single phase Type 2 cable with me in a waterproof bag in the frunk.
I haven’t bothered to buy a three-phase 11kW/22kW Type 2 cable because the i3 internal electronics will only do 11kW anyway. The difference between 7.4kW and 11kW when out and about is relatively small, and I’d rather spend 20 minutes finding a 50kW CCS DC charger to use for 30 mins...
Doing that has also introduced me to some new places off the normal routes that may have other nice things - like shops or cafes...
So in short, unless your mileage is predominantly highway and always over half the range of the i3 (unless you have workplace charging) - then the i3 is a great car to consider and a hoot to drive.
Lots of astonished ICE car drivers when you leave them standing at the lights....
It’s a “silly grin” type car - and mine is a keeper....
I just do NOT see you can get 145 miles of range in winter and 190 miles in summer. The i3 with the biggest battery....BMW says UP TO 153 miles!!

In warm weather, I am lucky if I get 140-150 miles. And even at 60F or below....my range is usually 100-120 miles. I drive 90% in EcoPro too. I currently have a 2020 i3S and my last BMW was a 2019 i3S. I mean....these ranges seem impossible; I am in Southern California as well! So. Cal might be the most ideal place in the world for an EV. 190 miles of range in the summer?! If this was possible, BMW would not say up to 153 miles.
i3s is less efficient than the regular i3 because of the wider tires and body work-- so you should get less range than him.
Thanks. Yeah...i3s has wider tires, wider body work and slightly more hp and torque, but cannot imagine it would make that much of a difference in range.
2020 i3S Rex; Capparis White

Deutsch100
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: bmw i3 important question

Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:50 am

alohart wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:20 pm
Deutsch100 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:22 pm
I too cannot imagine I have had two "bad" i3s. I know the REX adds weight, the i3S has more hp and torque and the wheels are bigger and wider....but still I should be getting more than 120 miles on a full charge and my REX range should be showing 60-70 miles like it used to.
For what it's worth, the EPA range rating for a 2020 i3S REx is 126 miles on electricity plus 74 miles on gasoline for 200 miles total range. That seems pretty similar to what you're experiencing.

For comparison, a 2020 i3S BEV is rated at 153 miles. Its greater range is due 100% of its usable battery pack capacity being available whereas only 93.5% of a REx's usable battery pack capacity is available before the REx engine turns on. In addition, a BEV is ~10% lighter than a Rex.

Curiously, the range ratings are identical for the 2020 i3 and i3S despite the i3S being more powerful and having wider tires.
Wow, ok...Thanks alohart! 126 miles on electric is really what I am getting (it fluctuates between 120-130 miles for me). My REX range has never shown 74 miles, but it has shown 70 miles before. Usually my REX range is around 50-60 miles when the tank is full). Really appreciate the response. I feel better-ish now ;)
2020 i3S Rex; Capparis White

Fordychap
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:58 am

Re: bmw i3 important question

Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:21 am

I’m still a bit astounded that there can be such a difference between the range we seem to get from our i3 120Ah - and what others in places that would appear to be more suited to EV driving - do from theirs.
Clearly we’re very fortunate, but I still don’t think we are that unusual in getting that sort of performance from ours...
Here is a an article from a UK EV website that tested the i3 in the real world:

https://www.nextgreencar.com/review/874 ... ah-review/

Here is what they said in “MPG and running costs” about the i3 (120Ah) and it’s pretty much what we get too...

“ Here we return to the statement at the top of the review, where I said that 'this latest update is perhaps the most significant yet'. The reason for this is because BMW has always previously offered a range-extended version of the i3 - the i3 REX - alongside a pure-electric model. With this latest battery update, it has removed the REX, reckoning that the real-world range is enough for drivers to rely on now.
Considering REX models outsold the pure-i3 two to one in the UK, it's a brave move. With an official range of 192 miles WLTP on a single charge, it looks like it may be a sound one however.

In real-world driving, I found that official figure to be pretty reliable too. With longer stretches of motorway driving, the average range dropped to a little over 180 miles on a charge, and the average by the end of my time with it was 4.5 miles/kWh. That equates to 170 miles on a charge, though routes with a greater mixture of open and urban roads saw the range increase to 193 miles. That's in Comfort mode too, with Eco taking that to 206 miles, and Eco+ to 210 miles.

It says much about the increased range available from the new i3 that I just left the BMW in Comfort the whole time, enjoying the performance on offer and not worrying about charge.”

After some issues with uploading images..
Here's our i3, the range (yesterday in Comfort mode after switch on) and the battery Kapa from a few weeks ago:

Image
Image
Image
BMW i3 BEV - 120Ah, Range Rover Vogue SE - SDV8 4.4 litre Tier 6 diesel, Various tractors...
40kW Solar PV and 100kWh Vanadium Redox Flow Battery for "All Electric" Property - exporting energy to the grid...

alohart
Posts: 2431
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: bmw i3 important question

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:52 pm

Fordychap wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:21 am
I’m still a bit astounded that there can be such a difference between the range we seem to get from our i3 120Ah - and what others in places that would appear to be more suited to EV driving - do from theirs.
The bottom line seems to be low driving efficiency and why Deutsch100's 2.8 mi/kWh is so much lower than what seems to be typical for his situation. He's not a new EV driver still learning how to drive efficiently, so this remains a mystery to me.
Last edited by alohart on Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

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