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carolle

New member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
2
Location
SF Bay, CA
I'm currently using Nissan Leaf '13, leased since 2013 for two years. The lease termination is near. I'm using EV for my daily commute (just 15 miles) and some weekend city driving. While I really love EV, I didn't like Leaf car itself. So, I'm considering BMW i3 for an alternative.

I don't need range extender. I'm wondering whether BMW i3 is worthy and currently has a good lease deal (I'd like to have 3-yr). Anyone who moved from Leaf to i3? Are there big differences? Any inputs are appreciated.

(I'm paying $160 (including tax) per month with $2000 down payment, for 12,000 miles/yr. Trim is SV + Quick charger + LED lighting. I don't want to spend way more for commute car. I'm also wondering the current oil price allows some good deals for EV?)
 
I currently own both. And drive both of them daily. And it would make much shorter list to tell you similarities than differences, those are just two completely different cars. Also they are in a different league price wise, there is no way you can get i3 for $160 a month with that little down payment.

It's going to be very hard choice for you. Good luck.
 
I agree with Tomasz that the Leaf and i3 are totally different cars. I have had my 2012 Leaf for a little over two years and put just shy of 28K miles on it. My experience with the i3 is still quite limited since I have only owned it for about a month. However, I have noticed - and this is strictly based on my 62 mile roundtrip commute - that the range I am getting in my i3 beats that of the Leaf. I believe they have made improvements to the new ones so this may be a moot point. Still, I can drive in comfort mode in this kind of weather, heater on at between 70-72F and easily make my commute with a few miles to spare. In my Leaf, I need to drive with no heat on during one of the legs to accomplish this.

The i3 begs to be driven. It's acceleration is truly addictive - 0-60 in 7 seconds vs 11.9 for the Leaf. RWD vs FWD. I think I got a pretty good deal on mine, BEV Giga 20" wheels, all other options except HK sound out the door for $375 including tax. My Leaf, which I still lease, is $199 with no money down on a 36 month lease so you will need to pay a little more for the i3.

What do I miss about my Leaf? The heated steering in this weather ;)
Good luck
 
You might consider contacting a dealer for an extended test drive. I traded in a 2014 Leaf SL for an i3 BEV. They are in different orbits, and I'm happy to be back in a German car.
 
Had a 2013 Leaf now an i3 BEV. The Leaf is based on a Versa - a lower priced car with the look and feel to match. The i3 has a higher end vibe, as you would expect. The difference between the two cars isn't subtle - the BMW wins by a wide margin. The driving experience is significantly better in the i3 in every way. Add to that the wonderfully designed BMW interior and the choice, at least for me, was an easy switch.

BUT, the i3 range in cold weather is abysmal. The BEV has an EPA range estimate of 82 miles or so, but in temperatures under 50 I struggle to reach 60 miles. In sub freezing weather I fall into the low 50 mile range, and occasionally the high 40 mile range. This is totally unacceptable and BMW knows of my displeasure, but to date they are unable to extend my range despite a new KLE, full diagnostics, rebooted system computer and lots of other things. None of them worked.

BMW suggests that I drive in Eco Pro Plus mode. Really? I can't use the car's heater or seat heaters, and can't drive over 56 MPH in order to extend my driving range to still be 15 miles short of the EPA estimate? Really? Beyond frustrating.

Equally frustrating is the requirement that to get better range you must precondition your car. Fair enough, I have a home charger, but the i3 doesn't allow preconditioning easily. The car doesn't "shake hands" well with my EVSE (Clipper Creek, but many others have similar problems - the EVSE brand doesn't seem to matter) and when the car tries to precondition it rapidly cycles the EVSE on and off several times a minute. I complained to BMW, showed them a link to a YouTube video showing the problem and their response continues to be that they can't duplicate my "unique user episode". That same video has a link on this forum.

The final straw is a BMW internal marketing piece supposedly for dealerships. It's titled something like BMW i3 Rex Real World Driving Range - may be titled differently. That document shows that BMW estimates that in 5-20F temperatures the expected battery range of the i3 ReX is 55 miles, and in "adverse" conditions it could be as low as 45 miles. Adverse is defined as not only cold weather, but also likely if the car isn't pre-conditioned prior to driving. As I noted above my preconditioning cycle doesn't work, so I'm often constrained to sub 50 mile range. That's a 25 mile radius from my home, and that assumes that I won't be on the lower 45 mile range estimate.

The i3 on paper is wonderful, I fully support their efforts, but before you commit scan this forum fully to be sure that if you make the switch you are doing so with eyes wide open and realize that the i3 has wonderful potential, but for many of us it's still a work in progress.

I love the i3 and hope that it can be adjusted to deliver what I bought. But if not, it's a toy to me, not a functional vehicle, and that's unfortunate for all of us. My heart/mind want an i3, but my head says "No". After all a car is a transportation device and it has to deliver that utility first and foremost.
 
Think of the Leaf v i3 as like comparing

Nissan Versa v BMW 320i. You wouldn't.

Also the i3 is made from carbon fibre and aluminium instead of steel. It has a smaller trunk than the 320i but a bigger passenger space. Or at least one that feels bigger as there's no transmmission tunnel in the way and only 4 seats.

Leaf and i3 both have electric motors and 20ish kWh of batteries and that's about where the similarites end.

Can I just warn you of one thing... if you go for a test drive you will want to own one, whatever the cost! Maybe a good option is to keep the leaf 1 more year and see what comes on the market (e-golf is cheaper) . Also may be some used demo i3 cars available at discounts.
 
We had a Leaf for three years and an i3 Rex for long enough now to be able to make a fair comparison, The summer and winter ranges are very similar. Driven the same way the i3 seems to be significantly better, though being a BMW it doesn't encourage the more leisurely style the Leaf induces.

The range is just what I expected from our Leaf experience. 80+ in the UK summer, 60+ in the winter. It's basic physics. Cold and wet weather increases fuel consumption in all cars, fossil or electricity based.

BMW are not magicians even if marketing suggests they are.
 
I currently have a 2013 Leaf on lease which ends in May. I also had a Prius Plug-In which I found myself relying on too frequently because of the Leaf's limited range. Quick Charging, IMHO, has gotten outrageously expensive and was costing way more per mile than gas for the Prius.

I also wanted to scale back to a single car that would meet 95% of my needs—I don't do lots of very long trips.

After looking at the Volt and the i3, I decided the i3 REx was the solution for me.

The Leaf and i3, as electric cars, are similar. The Leaf's interior, to me, is much roomier, the i3's cramped. I miss the heated steering wheel that the Leaf has and the i3 doesn't. Performance wise, I thought the Leaf was overpowered—until I stepped on the i3's accelerator. The i3 can move much more quickly than the Leaf.

As for range performance, I find the i3, with its heavy regeneration system, outperforms the Leaf. I've achieved 80+ miles on a charge in the 83 many times; usually I barely can eek out about 70 miles in the Leaf. Of course, I hear that the 2015 Leaf has improved regeneration, so that model may get closer to the 84 miles claimed in the literature.

I find both cars to be pretty comparable in comfort; the Leaf may have a tiny comfort edge.

It's a hard decision. For my needs, however, the Range Extender made the decision easy; BMW's 3-day test drive was what sold me because I was able to take an i3 REx on a trip around the area, over the mountains to the coast and back, and verify that it had the range and performance that was claimed.

For me the i3 won out over the Volt because the Volt's electric range is only about 35 miles. I understand the Volt, however, is supposed to be able to perform like a normal car on long trips that include mountain driving. And the newest model is supposed to improve the electric range slightly. Of course, in two years the Chevy Bolt is supposed to have an electric range of 200 miles; if that pans out, it will be a game changer.

Bottom line: I'm enjoying driving my i3, my Leaf is sitting in the driveway getting very little travel until my lease expires, and I'm happy.
 
I'm coming from a european perspective.

The main thing I miss from the leaf is the steering wheel heater. Allowed me to allow the cabin temperature get a lot lower without discomfort, and have the windows rolled down in lower temps too.
The Chademo rapid chargers are still a little more common here in Ireland (70 Chademo vs ~50 CCS Rapids). Dublin metro area is particularly short of CCS chargers but the national motorway network is well stocked with them.

Range on the i3 is lower on the motorway due to the leaf's superior aerodynamics. However, in the city the i3 has considerably better range. I suspect this is largely down to the heavier regen and the lack of a creep function (which I'm very very happy BMW removed). I find the seats/cabin more comfortable on the i3. The i3 is much more fun to drive, the steering is responsive, the weight is ~300kg lower and there is 60% more motor power available. The i3 is a lot more accurate at estimating range.

The Leaf is designed to make EV's more accessible to people. There were a number of design decisions that were made to make former ICE drivers more comfortable, to the detriment of the vehicle's performance and comfort.
The i3 is unapologetically an EV through and through, and makes no accommodation for people's preconceived ideas.
 
I just got out of the 2013 Leaf SV and into BMW i3 REX. I really like both cars.

You are going to pay more for the i3 because its a BMW; it has different mix of features and styling and its targeted at a different demographic.

I miss the heated steering wheel of and the touchscreen on the Leaf. I also miss the lower payment. I feel like the ride on the i3 is a little more firm but also more 'sporty'. I feel like the Leaf has more overall cargo space for humans and gear which is more appropriate for families.

What sold me was the i3 REX. Michigan winters are dark, ice cold, wet, and last for almost 4 months. I felt like I was 'selling out' getting a car with a gas engine in it... but unless you have a TESLA most EV's are almost impractical in the winter; you cant go far, you cant go fast, and you cant run the heat! I need a car I can drive everyday, go with the speed of traffic, and run the heat without worrying about range. Yes, the winter can be managed with the Leaf, I did it for two winters, but you just feel limited.

Other than the i3 REX I didnt have many reasons to dump the Leaf other than I wanted to experience something new, different, and from another car company and I am glad I did.
 
lencap said:
Had a 2013 Leaf now an i3 BEV. The Leaf is based on a Versa - a lower priced car with the look and feel to match. The i3 has a higher end vibe, as you would expect. The difference between the two cars isn't subtle - the BMW wins by a wide margin. The driving experience is significantly better in the i3 in every way. Add to that the wonderfully designed BMW interior and the choice, at least for me, was an easy switch.

BUT, the i3 range in cold weather is abysmal. The BEV has an EPA range estimate of 82 miles or so, but in temperatures under 50 I struggle to reach 60 miles. In sub freezing weather I fall into the low 50 mile range, and occasionally the high 40 mile range. This is totally unacceptable and BMW knows of my displeasure, but to date they are unable to extend my range despite a new KLE, full diagnostics, rebooted system computer and lots of other things. None of them worked.

BMW suggests that I drive in Eco Pro Plus mode. Really? I can't use the car's heater or seat heaters, and can't drive over 56 MPH in order to extend my driving range to still be 15 miles short of the EPA estimate? Really? Beyond frustrating.

Equally frustrating is the requirement that to get better range you must precondition your car. Fair enough, I have a home charger, but the i3 doesn't allow preconditioning easily. The car doesn't "shake hands" well with my EVSE (Clipper Creek, but many others have similar problems - the EVSE brand doesn't seem to matter) and when the car tries to precondition it rapidly cycles the EVSE on and off several times a minute. I complained to BMW, showed them a link to a YouTube video showing the problem and their response continues to be that they can't duplicate my "unique user episode". That same video has a link on this forum.

The final straw is a BMW internal marketing piece supposedly for dealerships. It's titled something like BMW i3 Rex Real World Driving Range - may be titled differently. That document shows that BMW estimates that in 5-20F temperatures the expected battery range of the i3 ReX is 55 miles, and in "adverse" conditions it could be as low as 45 miles. Adverse is defined as not only cold weather, but also likely if the car isn't pre-conditioned prior to driving. As I noted above my preconditioning cycle doesn't work, so I'm often constrained to sub 50 mile range. That's a 25 mile radius from my home, and that assumes that I won't be on the lower 45 mile range estimate.

The i3 on paper is wonderful, I fully support their efforts, but before you commit scan this forum fully to be sure that if you make the switch you are doing so with eyes wide open and realize that the i3 has wonderful potential, but for many of us it's still a work in progress.

I love the i3 and hope that it can be adjusted to deliver what I bought. But if not, it's a toy to me, not a functional vehicle, and that's unfortunate for all of us. My heart/mind want an i3, but my head says "No". After all a car is a transportation device and it has to deliver that utility first and foremost.

Hmm i can't clearly read out of your post if you drive the BEV oder REX. If BEV do you have the heat pump?
The heat pump makes a huge difference and should be mandatory.
 
My Leaf lease is ending, I have the replacement i3 (non-REx) already. But my primary car is a Volt (I'm on my 2nd Volt lease).

The Leaf was great for what it was, the first mass market EV available with fast charging (and our market has great support for it with the evGo charging network). I wouldn't compare it to a Versa, I had a Versa loaner that felt cheap and underpowered. The Leaf is MUCH nicer. But, with other options, the Leaf is not for me. Don't like the looks, don't like the light steering/handling.

Unfortunately while my i3 has fast charging, the DFW evGo network doesn't have combo plugs so I can't use it. But, I appreciate home charging at 7.2kW.

Of the three, the Volt clearly feels closest to a BMW 3 series. Try one, you'll be surprised.

The high driving position of the i3 makes it totally different experience, probably closer to an X3 (but I've never driven one so that is a guess).

For an overall daily car and its ability to take long trips I still favor the Volt (I've driving it to LA and back), but the i3 is definitely the most fun and "coolest" of the three right now and the first choice for around town.
 
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