NCAP rating

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Plug

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i3 given a 4 star NCAP rating.

Well written article explaining why : http://www.carsafetyrules.com/bmw-i3-four-star-safety-rating/1127/
 
I think this is a real concern, it would put me off buying the car. With all the hype from BMW they have failed one of the major tests for a car getting safety absolutely correct. With so many cars getting 5 stars these days a 4 star rating is not good enough in my view

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/bmw-i3-fails-get-five-star-safety-rating
 
gaz26 said:
I think this is a real concern, it would put me off buying the car. With all the hype from BMW they have failed one of the major tests for a car getting safety absolutely correct. With so many cars getting 5 stars these days a 4 star rating is not good enough in my view

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/bmw-i3-fails-get-five-star-safety-rating

The perspective of the author is not that the i3 is unsafe, but that BMW have overlooked a few details which would have scored more points in the NCAP assessment, thereby falling short of the 5 star rating. What the NCAP assesment missed is a rear seat belt warning light and a too sharp front hood edge, potentially causing more injury to a pedestrian, if hit. The integral safety of the car surpasses the norm in a side-on pole collision and if the car is fitted with the Approach Control Warning (part of the Driving Assistant Plus pack (5AT) will actively avoid a frontal collision, even with a pedestrian!

I think we're talking about a very safe car here! :D
 
i3me said:
gaz26 said:
I think this is a real concern, it would put me off buying the car. With all the hype from BMW they have failed one of the major tests for a car getting safety absolutely correct. With so many cars getting 5 stars these days a 4 star rating is not good enough in my view

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/bmw-i3-fails-get-five-star-safety-rating

The perspective of the author is not that the i3 is unsafe, but that BMW have overlooked a few details which would have scored more points in the NCAP assessment, thereby falling short of the 5 star rating. What the NCAP assesment missed is a rear seat belt warning light and a too sharp front hood edge, potentially causing more injury to a pedestrian, if hit. The integral safety of the car surpasses the norm in a side-on pole collision and if the car is fitted with the Approach Control Warning (part of the Driving Assistant Plus pack (5AT) will actively avoid a frontal collision, even with a pedestrian!

I think we're talking about a very safe car here! :D

I quote from the Autocar article
The new BMW city car achieved four stars on its test, with Euro NCAP commenting that in severe side impacts protection of the chest for adult occupants was "weak", and that the front seats and head restraints provided only marginal protection against whiplash in a rear-end collision.

Not a car I would want to drive
 
gaz26 said:
i3me said:
gaz26 said:
Not a car I would want to drive

Oh dear, harsh words! Although I agree that stupid points to score were left behind (rear seatbelt warning, speed limiter), real easy points to get things right were missed (anti-whiplash seats) and some design choises resulted in less than optimal crash-behaviour (hood, missing door pillar), I would not go as far as that.
On the plus side, the carbon safety cell proved to be extremely rigid. Take a look at the doorseams in the crash videos for instance. Or the (lack of) deformation of the cell upon side impact. Even the pole impact does not deform the cell. The pole does protrude the passenger cabin as far as the carbon roofline however, that will hurt. An i3 with door pillar could (perhaps) have had an edge in the pole test.

Given the effort that went into the little i BMW should have managed to score better I guess...
Steven
 
Quote from Car Safety Rules:

"The side impacts are against the carbon fibre structure and it behaves quite differently to a conventional steel car. In the more severe pole-strike test a normal car’s side caves in as it hits the pole. The i3 absorbs the energy without crumpling. That doesn’t necessarily mean better safety, however: the rib compression readings from the dummy indicate that protection of the chest was weak. That’s allowed in a five-star car, but many conventional steel cars do better. And in the whiplash test, BMW’s stylish, ultra-thin seats provided only marginal protection of the driver’s neck. Again, that’s acceptable for a five-star car too.

So what let the car down? The protection for pedestrians isn’t good enough for five stars and BMW has neglected to fit seat belt reminders on the rear seats."

Again, we're not talking about an unsafe car here, however the design could have been more safe!
 
Looks like the i3 is the only car BMW makes that doesn't get 5 stars

http://m.euroncap.com/index_en.aspx#results
 
It is, but NCAP changed for 2013, so the older * ratings are not directly comparable.


The whiplash results are unforgivable in a car as expensive as an i3.

Audi A3 scored 3.2 (good) BMW 3 series 3.1 (also good) -- i3 scored 2.8 (Marginal)



Videos are up on youtube. i3 does well in the stability control test

i3 ESC Test (all runs with ESC on)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH5K2QzGYGo

i3 Crash Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2greh-OyBOU


compare to:

Leaf ESC test (first run is with ESC turned off)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvwS10kMZPs


Leaf 2011 crash tests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nsb7SkrpyE
 
Will be interesting to see how BMW play this. They clearly need to make some urgent changes but that will take time. I remember how Mercedes got it wrong with that J turn test on the A Class, really hurt sales until they sorted it.

As the i3 will be used as a city car where rear end shunts and side impacts are a real possibility I think they have made some big errors in design here. Also amazed they have designed a car with such poor pedestrian protection especially as pedestrians will find it difficult to hear an electric car.
 
Should owners be concerned by the NCAP results showing such poor protection for pedestrians? Given the near silent running of an electric car and the expectation most of its work will be in the city how do the engineers at BMW design a car that NCAP shows would probably not be a good experience for a pedestrian if hitting one.

The i3 is not exactly an object of beauty like a Ferrari so what has gone wrong here?

It also appears in efforts to maybe save weight the seats and headrests may not be optimal in terms of top safety, hence the NCAP comments about whiplash?
 
gaz26 said:
Should owners be concerned by the NCAP results showing such poor protection for pedestrians? Given the near silent running of an electric car and the expectation most of its work will be in the city how do the engineers at BMW design a car that NCAP shows would probably not be a good experience for a pedestrian if hitting one.

The i3 is not exactly an object of beauty like a Ferrari so what has gone wrong here?

It also appears in efforts to maybe save weight the seats and headrests may not be optimal in terms of top safety, hence the NCAP comments about whiplash?

You need to understand the comments every car has comments like that, even the cars that score 5 stars. Plus the i3 actually scored very high in crash tests for both the driver and passengers. The car actually did achieve a 5 star rating for crash tests but the overall score was just shy of 5 stars because BMW chose to make certain things optional like rear seat belt warning light and automatic speed regulation. If BMW had made those two things standard the car would have been given a 5 star overall rating.

If you are worrying about pedestrian issues take a look at the Chevy Volt's past history, because the i3 scored better than the Volt did in this category, et I don't hear any problems that the Volt is having with this:
crashTest1a.bmp
 
I would be surprised if BMW does not correct some of the problems and submit an i3 for reassessment.

Mercedes recently did this with the Citan van after it scored only 3 stars. (4 now)
 
AndrewDebbie said:
I would be surprised if BMW does not correct some of the problems and submit an i3 for reassessment.

Mercedes recently did this with the Citan van after it scored only 3 stars. (4 now)

Yes I agree will also be interesting to see how the US Authorities rate the car and if BMW make last minute changes to the spec.

The absolute key aspect here however will be what happens in crash situations and whether the NCAP comments about things like poor whiplash protection are proven

Governments need to take a closer look at poor pedestrian protection from electric cars given their silent running.
 
An i3 need not be resubmitted by BMW for crash testing if the only changes are in the standard specs, ie that a rear seatbelt warning and the speed notification system are made standard equipment. The i3 will receive the 5 star rating starting from the VIN for which it is valid.
It already has good NCAP scores and nothing need be re-engineerd to achieve the 5 star rating :)
 
gaz26 said:
AndrewDebbie said:
I would be surprised if BMW does not correct some of the problems and submit an i3 for reassessment.

Mercedes recently did this with the Citan van after it scored only 3 stars. (4 now)

Yes I agree will also be interesting to see how the US Authorities rate the car and if BMW make last minute changes to the spec.

The absolute key aspect here however will be what happens in crash situations and whether the NCAP comments about things like poor whiplash protection are proven

Governments need to take a closer look at poor pedestrian protection from electric cars given their silent running.

There are always comments like what you are referring to with regard to whiplash will all cars in crash testing. If NCAP had thought it was a serious issue they would have deducted points from the crash test. The i3 scored very high in crash testing for all occupants (5-stars). That would not have been the case if there was a real whiplash issue.

Plus, I believe the speed limit icon is standard in the US (The car I test drove had it). Also, you do seemed a bit obsessed with the pedestrian results. They can test cars all they want for pedestrian safety as far as I'm concerned, but when a car hits a person walking, there is no way to accurately tell have that person will fall into the car as there are so many factors like height & weight, was the person walking or running, were they facing the car or backed up to it, etc. When a 2,000lb car hits a 150lb person, the person loses.

The i3 does come with brake assist for those concerned with this which will eliminate nearly all pedestrian to vehicle incidents. And the worry about the cars being silent is nonsense. BMW's MINI-E and ActiveE programs have logged over 20,000,000 all electric miles and there hasn't been a single incident recorded of a vehicle to pedestrian accident reported. Alert driving saves lives, not loud cars.
 
I agree with Tom. The fact is NCAP keeps on changing the goal posts as technology to test cars and technology in cars improves. The comments made in the media are there to cause a reaction and sell the news.

In truth 99% of the cars on the road would fare worse than a bmw i3 if they had to do the current NCAP tests today. And next year they will be even more "unsafe" because new rules for the test come into play.

Take the Aluminium Audi A2 from yr 2000. At the time it was the equivalent of todays i3 and indeed had hidden flooring to allow battery installation at a later date for conversion to EV. However it also scored NCAP 4 out of 5 with a low score for pedestrians.

That said it is still a very safe and strong little car:

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/ncap/ncap_car_results.jsp?make=Audi&model=A2&year=2002&publicationDate=2002-06-01

It is very hard to legislate for pedestrian safety - trying to predict where a pedestrian will end up in a collision is not an exact science due to the huge number of variables in a real world accident. The main thing is to drive safely and to try to anticipate both traffic and people's movement around the car.

One hopes bmw will fit the extra items mentioned as standard instead of as options to overcome the main criticisms.
 
Driving assistance package if You are concerned with risks for pedestrians and You drive a lot in city area's ....

Functional descriptions:
The video-based Active Cruise Control maintains a constant speed and distance from 0 up to 140 km/h without an intervention of the driver.

The traffic jam assistant control the car autonomously up to a speed of 40 km/h during traffic jams. The traffic jam assist function not only controls following distance but also keeps the vehicle on track by providing active steering input.

Pedestrian and vehicle collision warning with braking function. The system detects vehicles driving ahead and, at speeds of up to 60 km/h, also persons who are on a possible collision course. In an identified hazard situation, the driver is warned by means of visual and acoustic signals. In order to shorten the stopping distance, the braking system is simultaneously preconditioned. Furthermore, at speeds of up to 60 km/h an emergency braking maneuver with medium deceleration is also activated in order to reduce speed and draw the driver’s attention to the critical situation. City collision warning with braking function feature for pedestrians helps to prevent accidents from occurring with pedestrians and minimizes the risk of passenger injury in an collision
Speed limit information shows the respective permitted maximum speed
 
i3me said:
An i3 need not be resubmitted by BMW for crash testing if the only changes are in the standard specs, ie that a rear seatbelt warning and the speed notification system are made standard equipment. The i3 will receive the 5 star rating starting from the VIN for which it is valid.
It already has good NCAP scores and nothing need be re-engineerd to achieve the 5 star rating :)

It seems that BMW Belgium already reacted!
The next day the Euro NCAP results went public, I called my BMW i agent because I wanted to add the Driving Assistant Plus option. I was ready to pay for it.
Barely an hour after, he sent me the revised purchase order back with the option added. To my surprise, in addition to the requested option, the PO also showed a discount (ref code ZI3) equivalent to the price of the DA+. I am not sure the rear belt warning is included, but it turns out that BMW is offering the pedestrian safety feature for free!

The only doubt I have, is that the new PO doesn't mention any delivery date anymore ...

I'll give the salesman a break for a few days and I'll come back to him on that next week.
 
Regards the pedestrian warning system, will this work at all sides of the car?
If I am backing up, will the Driving assistant warn/stop me from hitting someone behind me?
If so the Parking assistant camera wont be needed anymore.
 
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