eNate
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:33 pm

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:03 pm

eXodus wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:33 pm


You are correct, it's not bad.
sorry I'm a energy efficiency nerd :P I got i3 BEV because I don't see the point of lugging around a engine which I use twice a year

3w x 8766 hours in a year = 26kwh that's more then 100 miles of driving.

Oh, no, I totally get your point, I wouldn't have guessed it that high, though in context it's at the low end of the norm.

My guess is improving this adds cost, but Clipper Creek domestically made units are already on the pricier side compared to units that have extra features such as wifi.
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alohart
Posts: 2205
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:14 pm

eNate wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:19 am
Clipper Creek units are fairly "bare bones" so two watts isn't the absolute lowest, but isn't awful.
I don't know why more EVSE manufacturers don't include on-off switches on their EVSE's. These could be low power switches because they'd turn off power to the circuit board and relay primary windings, not on the high-power side of the relay. The in-line switch I added had to be a more expensive high-power switch because it has to handle full charging power.

There's no reason that I can think of why an idle EVSE should remain powered at all times. It's not doing anything unless charging is active or a timer has been set for charging to start. It's a small waste of energy multiplied by more and more EVSE's which becomes a bigger waste of energy. The cost of adding an on-off switch would be minimal. Our EVSE takes only about 5 seconds to boot and be ready to charge, so turning it on isn't a problem.

Ours is a JuiceBox kit from 2014. If I hadn't specified an on-off switch when the electrician installed our charging circuit, I would add an on-off switch to our JuiceBox. I wish that I had thought about doing so when our charging circuit was installed. I could have saved a few bucks.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

obetbali3
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:57 am

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:56 pm

What do you mean with disconnect? My charger has a switch on the side to shut it off and buttons to change when it charges.
Why do you think you need a disconnect? I mean the small chargers are not serviceable like an Air Conditioner which requires one.
Yes. The Disconnect switch is really not required for evse less than 60A (codes are minimum requirement). I did complete my installation first without buying the evse yet, so for me to be able to complete the wiring, the disconnect switch at the end gave me the flexibility to complete the wiring while deciding what evse brand to buy.

Safety Switch: For EVSE rated at more than 60 amps or more than 150 volts to ground, a
means of disconnect must be installed in a readily accessible location and within sight of the
electric charging connector. If the disconnect is not in sight of the equipment, it must be capable of being locked in the open position (CEC §625.23). Depending on local code requirements, a fused switch may be needed if the switch is not readily accessible, or is not visible
from the main panel.

jadnashuanh
Posts: 5149
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm

FWIW, I don't know how accurate the meter I have on my EVSE's supply is, so 3W may not be exactly correct. Given that most electronics fail when you turn them on, a device designed to stay on will probably last longer if you don't shut it off and on daily.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV
Soon (hopefully!) A 2021 X5 45e will replace the above

eXodus
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:06 am

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:57 pm

jadnashuanh wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:12 pm
FWIW, I don't know how accurate the meter I have on my EVSE's supply is, so 3W may not be exactly correct. Given that most electronics fail when you turn them on, a device designed to stay on will probably last longer if you don't shut it off and on daily.
A EVSE not like high end electronic. It's small circuit board and a simple relay. Nothing fancy. The charger truly sits in the car and the EVSE only tells the car how much current to draw.

The only thing I can see failing is the 240 -> 12v converter for the circuits board. The relay will fail after 5-10.000 cycles or if you unplug without letting the charger on the car stop before you pull the plug. That will burn the contacts.

eXodus
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:06 am

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:05 pm

eNate wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:03 pm
Oh, no, I totally get your point, I wouldn't have guessed it that high, though in context it's at the low end of the norm.

My guess is improving this adds cost, but Clipper Creek domestically made units are already on the pricier side compared to units that have extra features such as wifi.
When you work in Energy Economics - you just remember the 8766 as hours in year. Everything in that field is annualized.
Don't care about bi-weekly or monthly stuff. Standby is always.

I respect good quality products, I hate stuff which don't last. But I also know my use cases very well. I'm only charging at home once a week, The charger I picked gave me two years warranty - so I figure it should last 2x 365 = 730 uses without needing warranty. I only use it 52 times year, which means 730/52 = 14 years.
If I would use it more - I would have picked a higher quality item.

alohart
Posts: 2205
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:35 pm

eXodus wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:57 pm
The relay will fail after 5-10.000 cycles or if you unplug without letting the charger on the car stop before you pull the plug. That will burn the contacts.
The J1772 charging standard that North American i3's implement prevents the charging plug from being unplugged while charging is occurring. A trigger must be pressed to release the plug lock. Pressing the trigger immediately stops the charging, so burned contacts shouldn't be a concern.

I'm not familiar with how or if the IEC 62196-2 Type 2 charging standard used in much of the rest of the world prevents the plug from being unplugged while charging is occurring. I have read about a shorter pin that disconnects before the power pins. When this shorter pin disconnects, charging is stopped before the power pins disconnect. I don't know whether this applies to IEC 62196-2 Type 2 charging. I would be surprised if power pins could be burned when unplugging under any circumstances.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

eXodus
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:06 am

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:42 am

alohart wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:35 pm
The J1772 charging standard that North American i3's implement prevents the charging plug from being unplugged while charging is occurring. A trigger must be pressed to release the plug lock. Pressing the trigger immediately stops the charging, so burned contacts shouldn't be a concern.
I go by ear - when I push the trigger it takes like 2 seconds until I hear a relay click. So if I would to yank the plug right away I could be able to get the plug out before that click occurs. When I looked at the j1772 standard - there is a 1khz PWM signal on the pin which gets changed when you hit the button.
https://www.fveaa.org/fb/J1772_386.pdf

While "immediately" should be a the standard - but computers and mechanical relays need a reaction time. Waiting 3 seconds until the click occurs, is cheap insurance :P

Pepeborja
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:18 am

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:27 am

I brought home a 2017 Rex a week ago and did a fair amount of research into charging. I settled for a very simple DIY solution that meets the needs EV owners whose requirement is to be able to fill back the battery overnight... meaning, drive during the day, get home, and have a full battery the next day.

Being DIY, I installed a 120/240 dual voltage 20AMP outlet with 12/3 wire in my garage and ordered a dual voltage charger from Amazon capable of 240V/16AMP charge rates. The wiring cost was $20 for the 20AMP breaker, $50 for the 12/3 wire, and $10 for the outlet, plate, and gangbox. The charger was $170 from Amazon.

The reason for 12/3 wire is the dual voltage outlet, which uses 1 hot (black) and neutral (white) for 120V and 2 hot lines (black and red) for 240V. I am able to run 120V/20Amp appliances w/o tripping a breaker in my garage since that is a shared circuit.

I thought about installing a bigger service using 6 or 8 gauge wire and decided against it for a host of reasons. I kept coming back to the objective of the solution being able meet the requirement to fill up overnight. Having large AMP draw capabilities was not a requirement.

Overall, I am happy with the solution. The charger plugs on the wall and the cable hangs on a couple of hooks on the ceiling making for a clean, out of the way, installation as the cable never touches the floor when on the hook or plugged to the car. I also used the 120V plug to run other appliances in the garage. Just keep in mind to not use high draw 120V appliances when the charger is drawing. That is not an issue since the car charges at night and the appliances used during the day.

Installing a big service box is nice but unecessary to meet the requirements.

BL5
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 10:23 am

Re: Question on Installing Level 2 Charger @Home

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 am

16A / 240V (3.8 kW rate) might work for a small i3 battery, but if ever plan on buying a longer range EV it’s going to take a while to charge. Can’t imagine waiting 20+ hrs to charge up a Tesla with a 100kWh pack.
2015 White REx, loaded Tera, ACC
2017 White REx, every option
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