I had a 3G to 4G TCU upgrade to prove a point.

At risk of derailing further... I can't help but point out the irony of complaining about a company's lack of ethics... by using Facebook! I know it's the simplest way to do a lot of things and might be the best way to communicate this since the i3 group is substantial there (or so I've heard) but still... have fun reading those terms and services!

Perhaps to echo eNate's comments-- maybe a thread here could suffice to express interest/ provide updates?

Yes absolutely.

I really don't think this is BMW's problem to solve, although they are providing a solution. For some of you its only a software upgrade. How many of you litigious BMW owners have upgraded your phones as 3g went to 4g went to 5g? Or did you all sue to get free phones? A decent phone cost $1000(US).

It is not the phone, it is the Modem in the car that needs to be upgraded.

ptards said:

I really don't think this is BMW's problem to solve, although they are providing a solution. For some of you its only a software upgrade. How many of you litigious BMW owners have upgraded your phones as 3g went to 4g went to 5g? Or did you all sue to get free phones? A decent phone cost $1000(US).

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Right!

I don't believe this thread would exist had BMW said, "look, here's is the path to upgrade, and this is the cost."

And that would be to bare minimum, zero-cost to BMW solution.

ptards said:

I really don't think this is BMW's problem to solve, although they are providing a solution. For some of you its only a software upgrade.

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Please describe the solution that BMW has provided and how BMW provided it. I wasn't offered a solution by BMW. In fact, BMW sent me a written message telling me that there is no solution for our 2014 i3. We have since learned that this simply isn't true. However, the retail cost of the solution would be considerably more than $1k. BMW could have offered this update at its cost, but they did no such thing.

The purchase price of our i3 included 10 years of Internet connectivity, more than 2-½ years of which I now won't experience. BMW won't have to pay AT&T for more than 2-½ years of connectivity yet hasn't offered to refund part of what I paid for this connectivity.

Also, what sort of software update would allow a 3G telematics module to work with 4G mobile data?

I really don't think this is BMW's problem to solve. ... How many of you litigious BMW owners have upgraded your phones as 3g went to 4g went to 5g? Or did you all sue to get free phones? A decent phone cost $1000(US).

Click to expand...

Not an equivalent comparison at all.

If you bought an expensive computer workstation from Dell, say Dell's Precision 7920 Tower, $23,289 one of the world's most powerful desktop workstations. Configuration is with two Intel Xeon Platinum 8260 processors (sporting 24 cores and 48 threads each), 96GB of memory, five storage drives, and a 48GB Nvidia Quadro RTX 8000 graphics card, and let's say it came with a Dell 7920 specific 5GHz wifi card, and included a five year contract of unlimited wifi data with Comcast (which you paid Dell for - and have the option of extending even longer by subscription). Then two years later Comcast says they are killing 5GHz and going to a 7.5GHz network. Dell then tells you that in three months you won't have any wifi, and they won't provide or even sell you a new wifi card for your workstation to continue your contract for wifi service, or reimburse you for the three years of wifi service you paid for and won't get, or the new limitation to your workstation, that it will NEVER be able to connect to the Internet again. Dell implies that your only option is to buy a new Dell Workstation that comes with the new 7.5 GHz card (and they are lying). Would you write it off, or be looking to sue Dell???

And BMW indicating that it is ATT's fault, (and you buying it) is a copout. BMW knew that the tech was changing - the telecom modems had previously gone from 2G to 3G, and when BMW was putting in 3G boxes in their cars, the industry had already indicated that 3G would be replaced by 4G and no longer be available in a few years. BMW's failing to plan for, or rather deliberately deciding to write off several hundred thousand customers, is on them, no-one else. The telecom sector introduced 4G in 2009 - so BMW had ample time. For BMW to claim it's ATT's fault, when BMW continued to install 3G modems in cars for EIGHT YEARS after 4G was first available, is a little ridiculous.

ptards said:

I really don't think this is BMW's problem to solve, although they are providing a solution.

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I, too, request to see the solution BMW is providing because they explicitly said they opposite in their official notice.

ptards said:

A decent phone cost $1000(US).

Click to expand...

This is a particularly good comparison to show BMW's stupidity/ shortsightedness/ ridiculousness. We are asking for a way to upgrade hardware that is substantially simpler than an iPhone (of which, the top-of-the line iPhone 12 Pro Max costs $1,000). And yet, BMW is saying it's impossible to upgrade a modem?

I do wonder if BMW is claiming it's literally impossible to do because if it was "possible" they'd have to do it for free.

Looks like user "Ptard" was a BMW person who came here to troll you all. My best guess. 2 posts.

That's very possible. I've actually thought about the phone comparison though as I just bought a brand new $200 phone (4G) for work. That's the out-the-door, unlocked price, not subsidized. If phones are hitting that price point then a 4G upgrade for a car's TCU should easily be within the $1k price-point.

So, I upgraded my i3 from 3G to a 4G telematics box myself this week.

Can you do it yourself? Yes, and no.

I used a used 4G box from a 2017 X3 (eBay, about $100). It plugged in in place of the 3G box under the rear seat. I thought it was worth trying a used box, since there's a significant cost savings. I just made sure the part number matched tezarc's part number

There is one extra antenna connection on the 4G box that my car didn't have a wire for. From my research it seems to be redundant and not needed on this car.

After installing the new box, when I turned the car on, it complained that the emergency call function was disabled.

I then used my Chinese knockoff ICOM Next box with a laptop with the presumably pirated ISTA software, and had ISTA do its thing - that consisted of updating basically every module on the car to the latest 2021 "i level", and coding any modules that didn't match (in this case the telematics box was automatically re-coded to match my car).

Was I successful? Well, it appears the box is working. I still receive notifications on my phone when charging starts and ends. What didn't work is that ISTA couldn't contact the ConnectedDrive Portal to register the new box, so I can't send commands from the app to the car. Apparently because my copy of ISTA isn't attached to a licensed dealership, it couldn't connect to that portal.

I had already coded my car so that the remote's panic alarm button now activates the climatize function, and climatize was the main thing I used the app for, so I've not done anything about it yet.

Could a BMW dealer service department do this with a new (or used) 4G box and make all the functions work properly? Absolutely, 100%.

I'm going to be charitable and say that the person at BMW who wrote the letter stating that there is no upgrade path from 3G to 4G for these cars was at least misinformed. The cynical part of me thinks that maybe BMW is on the hook to pay the wireless phone companies a tiny amount of money every time a packet of data gets sent to or from one of these cars, and they saw this as a way to slightly reduce their ongoing costs at the expense of customer goodwill.

There is some discussions in news about this issue. The i3 is not the only device that will lose connectivity:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...sks-silencing-home-alarms-reliant-on-old-tech

I have a 2015 i3 rex in the USA, and have embarked on the journey to upgrade to 4g, as 3g disappears in Feb. So far, results are mixed. I was able to swap in a used TCB, and code it with eSys, and I can use it to call customer service or SOS, but tying the IMEI to the Vin in BMW's Connected Drive system seems to be impossible. The Connected Drive folks refuse to do it. I even tried contacting AT&T to see if they could help, but got nowhere. I will ask the dealership next week, but they are conservative, and I don't expect much.
So my question is whether anyone has succeeded in getting the remote services, such as remote lock, working with a retrofit 4g module?
The one interesting thing I noted is that when I made a roadside assistance call from the car, my mobile app was updated with the time and date. But that's it.

I'm thinking about buying an i3 and one of the main features that I was exited about was remote monitoring and remote lock unlock as I'm going to be doing some carshare some of the time with the car.

I also have an F30 and we were actually given a 4G upgrade path (get this, my 2013 335i had a 2G module in it ) but of course by the time I checked on it, the period where they would do the upgrade had already passed.

I'd like to re-ask the question: with an upgraded TCU to 4G, can you do all of the functions including remote unlocking that you could do before with the BMW app?

This looks I was correct. The 3G shutdown is turning out to be a big snafu.

I smell class action lawsuit and a bunch of companies are going to get dragged into this.

I suspect BMW may possibly offer an upgrade to owners of BMW i3 and i8 vehicles because the battery warranty (8 years or 100,000 miles) can be monitored and honored….

I smell trouble….
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The dealership upgraded my 2017 REX to the 4G 84106836777 telematics box because I couldn’t get remote services to work in certain areas and my vehicle is still under original factory warranty until the end of Feb 2022.

But I also brought up the fact the battery is warrantied until Feb 2025 and - how is the vehicle going to communicate a battery fault (replacement or life safety error) if the telematics module doesn’t work…?

The BMW dealer talked to BMW and the modem was replaced.

I was willing to pay for it like the OP of this thread, but figured, “wait a minute, my vehicle is still under tge original factory warranty”…

BTW, there are several telematics companies who many companies use for mobile monitoring using the big 3 mobile network company networks. (AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon)

I don’t know which Telematics company BMW uses for the AT&T network.

In order for the new Telematics modem to work, the ICC and IMEI along with the VIN number which is coded into the car has to be transmitted to BMW through this third-party Telematics contractor where BMW “cross matches” (in Laymans terms) the numbers and the vehicle account.

I’m not sn expert in this field. I do have knowledge in mobile technology.

(I have an engineering background and I went to law school)

airman2482 said:

But I also brought up the fact the battery is warrantied until Feb 2025 and - how is the vehicle going to communicate a battery fault (replacement or life safety error) if the telematics module doesn’t work…?

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If an i3's battery pack suffers a fault, the driver would be notified by the setting of one or more diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's) which would result in one or more error messages being displayed on the instrument panel. I think it would be a heavy lift to infer that a functional telematics module is required by the battery pack's warranty which makes no mention of transmitting any faults to BMW via a telematics module.

As the owner of a 2014 i3, I would love for BMW to update our i3's telematics module if for no other reason that I paid for Internet connectivity through 2024 as part of my purchase price. However, I'm not holding my breath. BMW would certainly fight any lawsuit that would force it to update tens of thousands of telematics modules (considerably more if other BMW models are included). For one thing, BMW doesn't have nearly enough 4G telematics modules in stock, and the chip shortage would likely prevent enough of them from being manufactured in time to prevent many i3's and other BMW models from losing Internet connectivity, probably for many months.

Of course they would fight it. Any company would analyze the probability of the outcome and either “give in” or settle. (Come to an mutual agreement)
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What was your expectation when you bought your vehicle regarding the internet service?

Did you purchase the 10 years of internet from BMW?

If you are questioning what BMW may or may not do, have you contacted them by letter expressing your concerns?
——
This is where class action lawsuits (strength in numbers) sometimes prevail.

Example: 2G to 3G lawsuits across the industry for vehicles under warranty when the 2G was dropped.

As for a “chip shortage”, I don’t know (And neither do you) if various manufacturers of telematics modules have them in stock or not. Or whether they can “ramp up” and make a bunch or not.

Regarding my upgrade to 4G, I just presented my case to BMW and it worked. Probably because I still have a factory warranty and the fact 3G is becoming spotty in some areas and asked politely with a legitimate concern.

I don’t know how it would work if the vehicle wasn’t under the original factory warranty. I just made sure in my case, I brought it up well before the factory warranty period ends. I suppose I could buy an expensive BMW factory warranty extension.

I just wanted my remote services to work as covered under factory warranty and connected drive to continue.
——
As for pushing the responsibility on the owner for the battery warranty, this is questionable and would have to be researched and shepardized, rather than guessed upon by a layman.

And by signing or accepting Terms and Conditions by using a product or service doesn’t always shove the onus on the users back…

(BTW, to be clear, I’m not giving you legal advice.)

Speaking of battery:

Has anyone ever seen the 425+ mile conversion battery for the i3?

I read about it, but besides the article, never heard about again.

I believe it was a 100AH battery? (I may be wrong)

airman2482 said:

What was your expectation when you bought your vehicle regarding the internet service?

Click to expand...

That the connected services included in our i3's purchase price would continue to function for the entirety of their subscription terms which were 10 years for some of these services.

airman2482 said:

Did you purchase the 10 years of internet from BMW?

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It was included in the purchase price, but not as a line item.

airman2482 said:

If you are questioning what BMW may or may not do, have you contacted them by letter expressing your concerns?

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BMW sent letters to the owners of all i3's affected (at least to those for whom they have a valid address) telling us that, in the U.S., AT&T is to blame for discontinuing its 3G data service. BMW made it very clear what they are going to do: nothing. This is way down my list of priorities, so I don't plan to fight BMW over this.

airman2482 said:

Example: 2G to 3G lawsuits across the industry for vehicles under warranty when the 2G was dropped.

Click to expand...

The original general warranties for all affected i3's will have expired before 3G data service is discontinued. The fact that the battery pack warranties will still be in effect seems irrelevant because a telematics module has nothing to do with that warranty.

airman2482 said:

I just wanted my remote services to work as covered under factory warranty and connected drive to continue.

Click to expand...

I question whether the general warranty would cover a telematics module that isn't broken. It can't connect to the Internet because a 3rd party ceased 3G data service which BMW claims is beyond its control. Maybe AT&T should be sued.

airman2482 said:

As for pushing the responsibility on the owner for the battery warranty, this is questionable and would have to be researched and shepardized, rather than guessed upon by a layman.

Click to expand...

Have you read the battery pack warranty? If so, please point out where any dependence on the telematics module is mentioned.

The driver of an i3 with a battery pack defect will know about it sooner than BMW would do anything about it if they were notified over the Internet via the telematics module. An i3 isn't like Tesla's cars that almost continuously send data back to Tesla via their telematics modules.

It can't connect to the Internet because a 3rd party ceased 3G data service which BMW claims is beyond its control. Maybe AT&T should be sued.

Click to expand...

BMW's claim that the shut down of 3G is ATT's fault, and they have no control is accurate - that BMW can't do anything about it is not. They themselves set the precedent when ATT shut down 2G, and BMW offered a customer upgrade path to 3G.

I talked with a software developer in my company, and his take is that BMW has upgraded and added to their subscription offerings, and they were written or re-writen for the newest OS running on the MGU (Media Graphics Unit) circa 2018, and possibly NBT Evo ID 6, but won't run or won't run properly on previous head-unit OS, like NBT-Evo ID4-5, or 4, or NBT. Which would mean that BMW would not only have to upgrade the Com box, but the head-unit as well (and possibly even the LCD screens). This ups the per-unit upgrade cost to BMW significantly.

I solved the problem - just sold my 2015 i3 back to a BMW Dealer (for almost what I paid for it three years ago), before the Feb discontinuation of 3G service deadline. Once the car sales market is less crazy in a year or two, I'll consider what's out there for an EV, possibly a VW ID.4.