BEV No Heat, Again...

3pete said:

... Jim's point about sending some juice to the battery for a bit might have some veracity to it. Maybe the i3 kicks on the climate control and pulls from the battery for a minute before the battery says "hey EVSE, give me some more juice here."?

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This sounds reasonable.

Charging and discharging the battery also heats it. It may make sense to apply some current to a cold-soaked battery to warm it from the inside if there's also heat being applied externally. The i3 battery has enough head room to take on additional charge at when "topped," so why not.

In fact, when driving away at 100%, I get much further along before ticking down to 99½% than any other .5% decrease on a partial charge. So it's always appeared to me the system tucks an extra bucket of electrons away once capacity is reached.

I've had the range sit at a constant level while driving as much as 13-miles, but that's dependent on a change in use patterns. I have not sat and monitored my meter, so only have a few samples of the current going into my i3. I have a fairly steep driveway, and do note it using the brakes when descending after charging. A neat software blend as it feels very similar to doing the same with regen alone.

I'll be selling mine soon. I'll miss it in some ways, but the X5 45e rides smoother and has enough EV range for my normal operations day-to-day, but no worries if I need to go further. So, drop a vehicle from my insurance, and am able to keep it in the garage out of the snow in the winter. I've not put any fuel into the X5 since early September and it's still sitting at over 3/4 tank. Some of that use was just to see how it ran, not because I needed it.

jadnashuanh said:

... I have not sat and monitored my meter, so only have a few samples of the current going into my i3. I have a fairly steep driveway, and do note it using the brakes when descending after charging.

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This isn't a great number of samplies, but here's what I've got driving away from work on 50° nights, relatively flat, consistent route but with three traffic signals that can throw things off.

100% charged, preconditioned: 1.8 miles to drop to 99.5%

Partially charged, preconditioned: 1.8 miles consumes 2.5%

Interestingly, last night I had preconditioning deselected, so left work at 100% but the cabin and battery were cold. I expected to exceed the 1.8 mile mark, thinking my topped-off battery would be "fuller" given that preconditioning consumes more electricity than my Level 1 EVSE can flow in. I'm guessing extra juice was dedicated to warming the cabin quickly, and I had dropped from 100% to 99.5% probably at the 1 mile mark. I should try this all again with the heat turned off while driving.

One additional data point: yesterday I charged to 100% using a legit 40A Level 2 charger at work, so there should have been no charging deficit from preconditioning.

I made it 2.3 miles before dropping to 99.5%.

So yes, there's definitely some "invisible" head on top of the indicated 100% charge.

This explains why my i3 often shows 100% after charging on Level 1 ÷ preconditioning on a chilly night, when I should expect to be at a slight charge deficit.

was this topic ever solved?
I got a 2017 BEV with no heat and a 801380 Error Code - which indicates an Error with the Electric Heater under the hood.

But I have a heatpump - so at least at moderately cold temperatures I should have heat or?

Even at 15C or 60F outside - I got nothing - only cold air.

A/C works fine - preconditioning with A/C works perfect. Any other scenarios I should check?

eXodus said:

was this topic ever solved?

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As far as my situation is concerned, I feel like the dealer visit and software update mostly cured it. It recurred only once or maybe twice after that.

Unsure about the error code though. I never saw a maintenance light, and didn't check codes. The problem had always resolved itself the next day.

That was my 2017. In the '21 I own now – also a heat pump-equipped BEV – I've noticed low heat on two occasions, but not the same as no heat, and that's been over 18 months of ownership.

Thanks,
Do you remember which modules BMW updated?

My car isn't showing any dash lights either. It pretends everything is normal. The A/C display is going to red - indicating it should be heating. But nothing is happening.

I've read the codes with BimmerLink and found it somewhere in the HVAC module - brought it to the BMW dealership - they confirmed and and told me the resistance heater under the hood should be changed. $$$$

But since I got a heatpump and the A/C works perfect- I wonder why it even needs that - in this thread people quoted the resistance heater should only start running below -11C ?
Or is the car doing something like defrost - so cooling the Air with the A/C to remove moisture - and then heating it back up?

Any way to trigger the heatpump function alone?

eXodus said:

Thanks,
Do you remember which modules BMW updated?

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Sorry, I don't, and I passed all of that paperwork along to the new owner. My recollection though is they were very vague in what they wrote on the invoice. I was looking for more details at the time and "updated software" felt like a cop-out (but appears to have worked).

eXodus said:

was this topic ever solved?
I got a 2017 BEV with no heat and a 801380 Error Code - which indicates an Error with the Electric Heater under the hood.

But I have a heatpump - so at least at moderately cold temperatures I should have heat or?

Even at 15C or 60F outside - I got nothing - only cold air.

A/C works fine - preconditioning with A/C works perfect. Any other scenarios I should check?

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This sounds exactly like what just happened to my 2019 i3s BEV... i'd been getting less and less heat over the past couple months and then just cold air for the past couple weeks, took it to the dealer this week and they found that the electric flow heater failed: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=8P63-USA-01_2018_I01N_BMW_i_i3s_120Ah&diagId=64_1957#64129893003

Seems to be a common failure and the part keeps getting updated/superseded with new part #s... so have to assume they or the supplier keep changing it: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=64129893003&series=I01N

that is interesting that they keep updating the part. I mean it's a 400V water heater / kettle. Shouldn't be that hard to built or? I had a coolant block heater on one of my Volvos (230V) and that thing worked for decades.

I never had any issues with the heat. The car is almost 6 years old.

Just wondering about the fact why the flow heater error should lock out the heatpump? Maybe something in the software? Basically disabling heat altogether when a error occurs?

Or is the heatpump only heating the pack?

eXodus said:

that is interesting that they keep updating the part. I mean it's a 400V water heater / kettle. Shouldn't be that hard to built or? I had a coolant block heater on one of my Volvos (230V) and that thing worked for decades.

I never had any issues with the heat. The car is almost 6 years old.

Just wondering about the fact why the flow heater error should lock out the heatpump? Maybe something in the software? Basically disabling heat altogether when a error occurs?

Or is the heatpump only heating the pack?

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Good question about the heat pump... I also don't understand. My car also got a full overnight software update from the mothership so hopefully other little bugs have been squashed before i run out of warranty in July (fingers crossed).

SSi3 said:

Good question about the heat pump... I also don't understand. My car also got a full overnight software update from the mothership so hopefully other little bugs have been squashed before i run out of warranty in July (fingers crossed).

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Did you went to the dealer for the software update? I read a few things that the software might do that.

But I also read that it might change the regeneration feel of the car? Make it less aggressive - which I actually like

eXodus said:

SSi3 said:

Good question about the heat pump... I also don't understand. My car also got a full overnight software update from the mothership so hopefully other little bugs have been squashed before i run out of warranty in July (fingers crossed).

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Did you went to the dealer for the software update? I read a few things that the software might do that.

But I also read that it might change the regeneration feel of the car? Make it less aggressive - which I actually like

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Yes the dealership said there was some sort of recall that the software fixes... I couldn't find a recall related to my car but I wasn't complaining, happy to have a fresh OS on my nearly 4yr old car. In the little I've driven it since the repair I didn't notice any difference in the regen btw.

The "recall" for the 2017+ cars is for the Service Action 3G sunset. I'm not sure if it's a full software update or just a patch.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10200489-9999.pdf

eNate said:

The "recall" for the 2017+ cars is for the Service Action 3G sunset. I'm not sure if it's a full software update or just a patch.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10200489-9999.pdf

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There is no i3 listed under eligible models on that TSB.

eNate said:

The "recall" for the 2017+ cars is for the Service Action 3G sunset. I'm not sure if it's a full software update or just a patch.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10200489-9999.pdf

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Yep thats the update I got... which makes no sense as the 2019 i3 already has 4G, there's nothing to change or sunset.

SSi3 said:

eNate said:

The "recall" for the 2017+ cars is for the Service Action 3G sunset. I'm not sure if it's a full software update or just a patch.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10200489-9999.pdf

Click to expand...

Yep thats the update I got... which makes no sense as the 2019 i3 already has 4G, there's nothing to change or sunset.

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The best I can figure is the 3G was still a backbone connection and the car would continue to search for a 3G signal, particularly if in an area of weak 4G coverage. This update just removes that possibility.

BMW applied to it my 2021 last week while it was in for other stuff.

eNate said:

SSi3 said:

eNate said:

The "recall" for the 2017+ cars is for the Service Action 3G sunset. I'm not sure if it's a full software update or just a patch.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10200489-9999.pdf

Click to expand...

Yep thats the update I got... which makes no sense as the 2019 i3 already has 4G, there's nothing to change or sunset.

Click to expand...

The best I can figure is the 3G was still a backbone connection and the car would continue to search for a 3G signal, particularly if in an area of weak 4G coverage. This update just removes that possibility.

BMW applied to it my 2021 last week while it was in for other stuff.

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That's a good thought :idea:

the TSB gave me an idea:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10151271-9999.pdf

SUBJECT
Reduced or No HVAC Heat Output
MODEL
I01 (i3 & i3 Rex)
I01 - The heat is not functioning at all.


So there is apparently a software update which fixed the no heat error in the 2016 i3. Which is not that different from my early 2017 i3.

1. Program the vehicle with ISTA/P 3.58.3 (Target I-Level I001-16-03-505 and F020-16-03-
504) or higher.

Does anyone know how to check to software version of the I-Level?

My idea is to delete the -resistive heater error in my i3 and see how long it takes to reappear. - Like I said - it is weird that the heatpump doesn't do anything. The car should have two different heating system, I'm in warm country - it never gets below freezing so the heatpump should be all I need.

Very interesting I found a HVAC reset on reddit:

"There is a "hidden" reset that might work, try turning the temp-knob to the lowest and up to the highest setting 6 times fast."

https://www.reddit.com/r/BMWi3/comments/z772y1/2017_i3_hot_air_isnt_working/

I've tried that yesterday evening - didn't do anything then - but this morning when driving to work I had heat again.

Going to keep you posted if it keeps working.