electronchaser
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:14 pm

What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:18 pm

I know this might not apply to a lot on the forum, but I was curious to those that drive the i3 hard, what's the least amount of miles you've been able to get per charge.

I've got a 2019 120ah, and no matter how hard I punish it, I cant get less than 110 miles, with SOC still around 10-12%, AMAZING!

That's with no climate (heat/ac), just heated seat.

I just found that amazing, I set out everyday to conquer the less than 100 mark, but I've not even come close. And its winter, and I drive at avg outside temps of between 45-60F, so not the most optimal temps either.

(I wonder how much regen puts back into the pack throughout my drive. too bad we don't have access to basic data like that )


On the flip side, I've gotten 174 miles out of it taking her down to 8% battery, driving it like a normal human.

chime in with your real world experience
Am I trashing it?, absolutely, but with love, like every other BMW I've owned.
Rondel stands for something, and I fully utilize all the non neutered abilities its got.
Takeaway. This is an amazing piece of engineering. And I'm not impressed with 'stuff'

Obioban
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 6:16 am

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:12 am

If I park my 2017/94aH at the top speed limiter (94mph) on a COLD morning (teens or lower), I only get ~65 miles of range (with reduced power most of the time, too) with the battery preconditioned. Climate on, seat heaters if they're comfortable.

Doing the same thing in warmer ambient gets ~90 miles of range.

Driving back road hard, I generally get ~80 miles out of it in normal temps.... though I'd drive harder if it didn't reduce power output after too much of that.

Driving back road normal/baby on board, I get ~120 miles out of it in normal temps.

... my wife has gotten as much as 182 miles out of a charge, driving carefully on a nice day.

alohart
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:13 pm

electronchaser wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:18 pm
(I wonder how much regen puts back into the pack throughout my drive. too bad we don't have access to basic data like that )
The BMW Connected app displays the affects of regen during the last trip. It's listed under "Recuperation" showing the distance driven required to add 1 kWh of energy to the battery pack. In pure highway driving, not much regen energy is added to the battery pack, so the distance driven necessary to add 1 kWh of energy to the battery pack would be quite high.

Similar information might also be available in iDrive. I don't pay much attention to this so I don't recall what iDrive can display.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

GuyD
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:06 am

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:20 am

Having now done over 20k miles in 18 months in a variety of conditions, my experience is as follows.

Bare in mind that we live in a very benign climate - seldom less than 8deg C and only over 30 deg C occasionally so normally late teens/early 20s.

We have a 2018 94Ahr model.

We get around 200kms/125 miles (occasionally a trifle over in ideal circumstances) driving on speed limited main roads at 80-100kmph and then in town. Sometimes this drops to 190kms for some reason.

However when I drive on the main freeways to Cape Town (550kms) at 110-120kmph with bursts above, the range drops dramatically to 150-160 kms/95 miles and even down to 130kms if larger percentage is at or over 120kmph. So barely an hours driving.......

The drop in range is quite sudden and seems more than just an increase in drag (the i3 can't be the most drag efficient design!). Maybe BMW deliberately engineered the electric motor efficiency around urban driving?

electronchaser
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:17 am

alohart wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:13 pm
electronchaser wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:18 pm
(I wonder how much regen puts back into the pack throughout my drive. too bad we don't have access to basic data like that )
The BMW Connected app displays the affects of regen during the last trip. It's listed under "Recuperation" showing the distance driven required to add 1 kWh of energy to the battery pack. In pure highway driving, not much regen energy is added to the battery pack, so the distance driven necessary to add 1 kWh of energy to the battery pack would be quite high.

Similar information might also be available in iDrive. I don't pay much attention to this so I don't recall what iDrive can display.
I get goofy numbers on the recup page on the app. Sometimes the numbers look plausible, other times, they're like ridiculously off, like a basically make more energy regen'ing vs consumption.
Am I trashing it?, absolutely, but with love, like every other BMW I've owned.
Rondel stands for something, and I fully utilize all the non neutered abilities its got.
Takeaway. This is an amazing piece of engineering. And I'm not impressed with 'stuff'

electronchaser
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:22 am

Here’s some pics:


https://ibb.co/fkPp3Ts


https://ibb.co/nRZpC20



https://ibb.co/zJ5YLjt


*I don't use the brakes. 99.99% of braking is via regen.
Am I trashing it?, absolutely, but with love, like every other BMW I've owned.
Rondel stands for something, and I fully utilize all the non neutered abilities its got.
Takeaway. This is an amazing piece of engineering. And I'm not impressed with 'stuff'

alohart
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:13 pm

electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:17 am
I get goofy numbers on the recup page on the app. Sometimes the numbers look plausible, other times, they're like ridiculously off, like a basically make more energy regen'ing vs consumption.
Regen rates can be difficult to interpret because both highway cruising with very little regen and slamming on the brakes hard for every deceleration would result in low regen rates (i.e., high mi/kWh values). So while coasting is the most efficient way to decelerate which results in low regen rates, hard braking is the least efficient way to decelerate yet also results in low regen rates.

Urban stop-and-go driving usually results in high regen rates (i.e., low mi/kWh values) due to frequent decelerations without much coasting possibility. However, high regen rates aren't the most efficient.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

electronchaser
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm

alohart wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:13 pm
electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:17 am
I get goofy numbers on the recup page on the app. Sometimes the numbers look plausible, other times, they're like ridiculously off, like a basically make more energy regen'ing vs consumption.
Regen rates can be difficult to interpret because both highway cruising with very little regen and slamming on the brakes hard for every deceleration would result in low regen rates (i.e., high mi/kWh values). So while coasting is the most efficient way to decelerate which results in low regen rates, hard braking is the least efficient way to decelerate yet also results in low regen rates.

Urban stop-and-go driving usually results in high regen rates (i.e., low mi/kWh values) due to frequent decelerations without much coasting possibility. However, high regen rates aren't the most efficient.
I mentioned I don't brake. These snaps were taken on the 3 different commutes, same destination, early morning runs, all highway, speedo parked at 93 the whole way, then exit, 1 mile to office, with 5 signal lights.

Trust me it doesn't work. I've tracked it OCD status, and I get random numbers that don't even match my driving style. :roll:

This mi/kWh is stupid. Might make sense for energy consumption, but not for generation.
Why not just put a counter with the actual amount of watts you've recouped from regen. Like an actual measurable amount.

We're not babies, I think we should be okay if we're fed a little more usable information. The lack of data in this car causes me more annoyance and anxiety than range ever could.

Anyway, why do these threads go off tangent. I started this thread so current owners can chime in with range, so prospective buyers can find these threads and have some real world numbers before deciding if an i3 would work on not in their scenario.

back onto the subject, Art, what kind of range are you getting out of your unit?
Am I trashing it?, absolutely, but with love, like every other BMW I've owned.
Rondel stands for something, and I fully utilize all the non neutered abilities its got.
Takeaway. This is an amazing piece of engineering. And I'm not impressed with 'stuff'

alohart
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:50 pm

electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm
I mentioned I don't brake.
I mentioned braking only to illustrate how difficult recuperation values can be to interpret.
electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm
Trust me it doesn't work. I've tracked it OCD status, and I get random numbers that don't even match my driving style. :roll:
My recuperation values seem to be quite consistent. However, my driving is also quite consistent in all ways with very little ambient temperature variation, speeds typically less than 50 mph, and very little elevation changes.
electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm
This mi/kWh is stupid. Might make sense for energy consumption, but not for generation.
Recuperation values aren't stupid in that they are easy for the car to calculate. However, they are stupid in that they aren't easy to interpret.
electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm
Why not just put a counter with the actual amount of watts you've recouped from regen. Like an actual measurable amount.
Watts (power) is an instantaneous, not a cumulative value, so displaying watts on a counter wouldn't be possible. A wattmeter could display the instantaneous battery pack input and output power which would be interesting to know. However, displaying battery pack energy output and input (kWh) would make sense. However, dividing the recuperation value by the miles driven would be the amount of energy recuperated over distance driven.
electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm
We're not babies, I think we should be okay if we're fed a little more usable information. The lack of data in this car causes me more annoyance and anxiety than range ever could.
I agree. Our i3 being our first BMW, my sense is that BMW doesn't want its customers to have to bother themselves with too much information. Any problems, see your friendly BMW dealer who will gladly lighten your wallet big time.

I wish some talented electronics person would decipher the i3's data bus packets to display data to a driver using a smartphone app. Something similar happened with our 2000 Honda Insight hybrid except that a custom gauge rather than a smartphone app displayed the data.

I recently read of an effort to decipher the communications between an i3 and BMW's ISTA+ software. If that effort is successful, it could be used with a custom smartphone app to display things like minimum and maximum battery cell voltages, battery pack temperature, maybe current into/out of the battery pack, etc.
electronchaser wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm
back onto the subject, Art, what kind of range are you getting out of your unit?
2014 60 Ah BEV with only 10k miles. My average driving efficiency was reported to be 5.5 mi/kWh by the old iRemote app but only 5.1 kWh by the current BMW Connected app. Trip efficiency displayed on the instrument panel are typically closer to 5.5 mi/kWh than 5.1 mi/kWh. That's on the high end for i3's so wouldn't be representative.

It's high because of Honolulu's moderate ambient temperatures that require no battery pack preconditioning or cooling while driving. I've never used cabin heating and am judicious with cabin cooling. I almost always drive in suburban and urban settings at speeds less than 55 mph. I always drive in Eco Pro mode with ACC controlling most acceleration and deceleration. I have inflated our tires to 10 psi over the recommended pressures which reduces rolling resistance and increases range.

When our i3 was new, its actual range could be as high as 105 mi. Unfortunately, the usable battery pack capacity has decreased due to general battery cell degradation, a weak battery cell, or the BMS playing games with the usable battery pack capacity, maybe to reduce the probability of a battery pack capacity warranty claim. At this time, the maximum actual range is ~90 mi. This ~15% range loss is consistent with the average Batt. Kapa. max values.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

JohnWasser
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:15 pm

Re: What's the least and most range per full charge 60ah,94ah,120ah

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:32 am

I agree that displaying regenerative braking could be done in much more useful units. How about a ratio of how much regeneration happened vs. how much regeneration COULD have happened if the brakes were not used. A value near 100% would mean you were regenerating every bit of momentum possible. Low numbers would mean you were using the brakes too much and turning momentum into waste heat. THAT would be useful information.

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