JASmith
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Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:03 pm

Long story short is I have my own excel spreadsheet where I was comparing specs and math of a few vehicles including the i3, and another forum member recommended I just use Edmunds "True Cost to Own" calculator rather than reinvent the wheel.

For a used 2018 i3 rex, it estimates a purchase price of $21.5K but a total cost after 5 years of ~$44.5K:
https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/i3/2018/cos ... =401744391
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For say a new 2021 Kona SEL Plus it estimates a higher $23.3K purchase price but a total cost after 5 years of $31.8K:
https://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/kona/20 ... =401859230
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Is this bogus math, or would a new vehicle actually end up being $12.7K cheaper?

Edit: Also checked on EV's to see if its just an electric thing, and still not as extreme on their #s with a redesigned 2019 Volt showing $35.9K:
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And redesigned 2018 Leaf showing ~$31K:
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eXodus
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:39 am

Looks like bogus to me.

If you don't have a catastrophic failure you will never spend $13k for an i3 in maintenance and repairs for 5 years. That must be for a regular ICE BMW - there I see no issue in loosing that much money since it's a BMW (Bring My Wallet)

If you exclude tires - you will have hard time spending $1300. You will have to go to maintenance probably twice - and get the oil and brake fluid change - that's like $400-500 each visit.

I'm with progressive and pay less then $1000 a year for insurance for my 2017

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MKH
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:45 am

Yes, totally bogus numbers. Look at the fuel costs listed - $2,959. That calculates out at almost 6,000 miles a year running on the REx? That would work out to running on the REx 50% of the time for an 'average' mileage car. And maintenance at $6,930? The first three years of maintenance are included, so two years of maintenance @ $3,465 a year? Don't think so. Even at BMW prices an oil change plus brake flush and full vehicle check is 1/5th of that. Maybe if you add in several sets of tires - though I'm at 5 + yrs on mine, and only on my 2nd set of tires, original tires were good for 4 years.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

JASmith
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:17 am

MKH wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:45 am
Look at the fuel costs listed - $2,959. That calculates out at almost 6,000 miles a year running on the REx? That would work out to running on the REx 50% of the time for an 'average' mileage car.
The number is the same for the non-rex pure EV model, and is almost the same for the EV Leaf.

I think they are using MPGe for the "fuel" calculation, to give some value to home and on-the-road charging, and it may include the initial purchase /install of a home charger, I'm not sure as they don't say, other than that all the EVs I put in their system spit out a "fuel" number.

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MKH
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:57 am

I think they are using MPGe for the "fuel" calculation, to give some value to home and on-the-road charging,
Ok, that makes sense, though there has to be a better term to use than 'fuel' for an EV :P

If my math is right, they show an average of .08 cents a mile for 'fuel' cost, which seems pretty high. I guesstimate my cost for home level 2 charging at under .02 cents a mile including the cost of the charger. I suppose if you had to charge at pay-as-you-go commercial chargers that number would be closer.

Edmunds really needs to have a section where they explain how they got their numbers.
Mark H.
2015 i3 Rex, Capparis White, Tera World, Technology & Driving Assistant, Parking Assistant, Harman Kardon Audio System, 19 inch 427 wheels, EVoInnovate EVSE

JASmith
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:14 pm

MKH wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:57 am
Edmunds really needs to have a section where they explain how they got their numbers.
They don't list sources for their data-farming anywhere, just this: https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Car depreciation: how much value the car loses each year
Interest on financing: the amount of interest paid over five years
Taxes and fees: the total of all sales tax, fees and registry costs each year
Insurance premiums: the average cost of insuring the car
Fuel: how much you have to pay for the type of fuel that the car requires — regular or premium gasoline or diesel fuel
Maintenance: the total cost of performing all the scheduled maintenance found in the vehicle's owner's manual
Repairs: the projected cost of fixing common mechanical problems for this vehicle
Federal tax credit: the amount of any tax credit available for alternative fuel vehicles

So one reason maintenance might be high would be if BMW specifies at 15K miles it needs a 100 point inspection or whatever, something anyone can just do themselves at home and most techs would just gloss over anyway, and BMW dealerships have their usual ridiculous fees, then I could see that ballooning costs that most would never experience. Likewise, an oil change anyone can do themselves for free at home, BMW dealerships might charge a fortune for.

What concerns me is that most vehicles seem to be pretty consistent in their numbers in that price range, new and used, but the i3 sticks out being so unusually high in the repair/maintenance columns. When I go to places like repairpal and the like to verify, they don't even have the i3 in the dropdown menu. :|

eXodus
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:37 pm

the i3 BEV 2 year service is like 400-500$ even with the 100 point inspection at the BMW Dealer.

I don't know about the REX oil change Service.

i3Alan
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:25 pm

eXodus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:39 am
If you don't have a catastrophic failure you will never spend $13k for an i3 in maintenance and repairs for 5 years. That must be for a regular ICE BMW - there I see no issue in loosing that much money since it's a BMW (Bring My Wallet)
How many $23,000 repair bills at 5 years old (e.g., my i3) does it take to bring the average up to this level?

eXodus
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:37 pm

i3Alan wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:25 pm
eXodus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:39 am
If you don't have a catastrophic failure you will never spend $13k for an i3 in maintenance and repairs for 5 years. That must be for a regular ICE BMW - there I see no issue in loosing that much money since it's a BMW (Bring My Wallet)
How many $23,000 repair bills at 5 years old (e.g., my i3) does it take to bring the average up to this level?
that would be in the category of catastrophic failure.
Sorry that you had so much trouble with your car.
I know many i3 drivers which really had never anything done aside of regular maintenance and maybe coil spring cover.

Did you had to pay those bills, or was some covered by warranty? I mean I had a repair here and there (window gasket, steeringwheel)
But was all covered.

JASmith
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Re: Edmunds TCO - Fact or Fiction?

Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:36 pm

i3Alan wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:25 pm
How many $23,000 repair bills at 5 years old (e.g., my i3) does it take to bring the average up to this level?
Was yours one of those ones where the AC failed and contaminated the battery with metal shards and what not? :(

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