REx Class Action Lawsuit
- Thread starter brorob
- Start date
Help Support BMW i3 Forum:
SSi3
Well-known member
brorob said:
That won't happen, but perhaps some adjustment to when the REX comes on, maybe 10% so there's more buffer... or a hill mode in which the car uses nav GPS to determine upcoming topography and build a buffer on its own (this was apparently in the works but never got past beta testing)... or increase the power output generated by the REX so it can maintain the SOC for longer (this is rumoured for the 2017 but no confirmation yet).
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
Not to beat a dead horse, but the car gives more than one warning of this impending situation, and is much less dramatic than on an ICE where you just ran out of fuel and now your power brakes don't work or your power steering. The driver is an important part of the equation, and from the German standpoint...should always be aware of what's going on. The i3 going into limp mode is not a fault of the car, it is a driver's for not paying attention to the impending warnings. Those that say it happened without notice, are just not paying attention.
BMW had indicated they were trying software that would, when a route was being used (so it would know where you were planning to drive), adjust when the REx could come on, but never completed that task for one reason or another (maybe CAFE, maybe technical issues, I don't know). Running the REx faster to produce more power also means more wear, tear, noise, fuel consumption rate, and maybe a compromise solution being implemented in the 2017MY.
My opinion, if you regularly need the REx, the i3 may not be the best car for you in the first place.
BMW had indicated they were trying software that would, when a route was being used (so it would know where you were planning to drive), adjust when the REx could come on, but never completed that task for one reason or another (maybe CAFE, maybe technical issues, I don't know). Running the REx faster to produce more power also means more wear, tear, noise, fuel consumption rate, and maybe a compromise solution being implemented in the 2017MY.
My opinion, if you regularly need the REx, the i3 may not be the best car for you in the first place.
NHi3REx
Active member
As I recall the problem with the café regulation was that the i3 couldn't travel farther on fuel than battery to officially qualify as a "Range Extended" EV, and thus qualify for the full tax benefits.
This being the case, the simplest solution would simply be to give all of us Rex owners the new larger capacity batteries and set the REx to turn on even sooner (sarcasm implied)
This being the case, the simplest solution would simply be to give all of us Rex owners the new larger capacity batteries and set the REx to turn on even sooner (sarcasm implied)
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
That wouldn't help!
People would just drive further without recharging, and once that magic SOC is reached, the situation will still occur.
People would just drive further without recharging, and once that magic SOC is reached, the situation will still occur.
Quote >> My opinion, if you regularly need the REx, the i3 may not be the best car for you in the first place.
Bingo! The i3 was designed for a specific purpose -- urban driving.
Interesting how many people buy a product -- any product -- knowing full well that it was designed for a specific purpose and then end up ticked off when it doesn't do things it was never intended to do.
"Why the heck won't this hammer drill a 1/4" countersunk hole in a 2 X 4? I'm suing!"
Bingo! The i3 was designed for a specific purpose -- urban driving.
Interesting how many people buy a product -- any product -- knowing full well that it was designed for a specific purpose and then end up ticked off when it doesn't do things it was never intended to do.
"Why the heck won't this hammer drill a 1/4" countersunk hole in a 2 X 4? I'm suing!"
NHi3REx
Active member
jadnashuanh said:
True, and this wasn't meant to be taken as a serious solution proposal. However, by having the Rex kick in much sooner 10% or even 20% there would be far more room for the battery to discharge before going into limp mode. Again not a complete or even viable solution, but it would be an improvement.
After all, perhaps I should file a lawsuit against Ford because my other vehicles "suddenly lose power" when I run out of gas or overheat due to excessive loading. At least with the Rex you're not stuck on the side of the road waiting for assistance. At some point the driver/operator has got to take responsibility for understanding how their vehicle operates.
However, it is also true that BMW could do a better job indicating when the Rex is enabled and the battery charge has dropped below 1-2%.
jadnashuanh said:
The fatal flaw in your logic is that you don't usually have a gas station nearby when you get the "warning", and it won't matter how much "paying attention" or being "aware" the fallible human pilot is doing if you can't magically get gasoline all of a sudden to remedy the situation.
You are correct. I say ban the Rex (t-shirts being printed up right now with that message.. :ugeek: ..). Make it be an honest all-electric BEVjadnashuanh said:
like the Leaf or Tesla. Rex is just a bad idea.
BTW, NHTSA should be on this too. Not just a class-action lawsuit.
While there should be a choice to turn on the Rex earlier, I absolutely would not want it forcibly activated at 10% or 20%. On all but one occasion where I have run the battery low enough for the range extender to activate, I was within 2 miles of home and could have easily made it home on the last 6.5% of battery without using the Rex. However, there is no way to override it coming on at this level. If it was a higher forced threshold this would happen even more frequently which would be undesirable.NHi3REx said:
alohart
Well-known member
If I'm misunderstanding your comment, please explain. Whether a gas station is nearby has no bearing whatsoever. The reduced power situation occurs because the battery pack charge level drops below 2%, not because the REx engine runs out of gasoline. More gasoline wouldn't increase the power other than stopping for gasoline would allow the REx generator to charge the battery pack sufficiently that full power would be restored. But stopping anywhere beside the road or even reducing one's speed would accomplish the same thing.electrons said:
Not for those who don't want to spend big bucks to buy a long-range EV or who don't want to drag a big heavy battery pack around even when long range isn't needed reducing the car's efficiency. The REx generator is a compromise that allows one to drive a high percentage of the time on electricity but provides longer range when needed. Not a bad idea at all for those who need it.electrons said:
Nonsense! Let the NHTSA deal with real safety problems.electrons said:
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
Agree...if it's a flaw (and I don't think it is), BOTH versions of the i3 have it...it will suddenly (after more than one warning) drop into 'limp' mode. It's lots more graceful when this happens than running out of fuel on an ICE. Is an ICE defective because the driver ignored the low-fuel warning and then ran out of fuel, while his power brakes are no longer powered nor is the power steering able to assist the driver.
I wouldn't want my REx to turn on sooner because I often run mine under 10% but make it to my destination before the SOC is low enough for it to turn on. Definitely not a solid solution for the owners that have the problem that brought on this lawsuit. I'd rather have the option to manually turn it on if I thought I would be in this situation, which I don't think I will be in since I don't live in a mountainous area. Someone commented that this won't happen in the U.S. but I'm curious why.timf said:
alohart
Well-known member
Because that would violate the specification for CARB's BEVx car category which provides BMW with far more valuable emission credits than would the hybrid car category which is how CARB would categorize an i3 REx whose REx engine could be manually started. Without these credits, BMW might have to raise the price of its cars.brorob said:
alohart said:
My apologies, I meant to type in "charging station" and for some reason typed in "gas station", electricity vs. gasoline.
Meaning to say you can't usually stop for a charge when you get all those warnings. So a driver typically continues on trying to get home etc., and then thats when trouble can start, as in there is a hill, headwind, etc. which happens that requires more power which simply isn't there. 34 hp isn't enough for hills, headwinds, passing, all of which people will find themselves in.
----Hence the lawsuit subject.----
The problem is that some people will use the Rex routinely. Not just in an emergency, badly planned, occasional scenario. That's the key to understanding all this. For example, if I treated the Rex as just a very rare mode, or I was merely in stop-n-go, slow city traffic only, then likely no problems. However, typical i3-Rex drivers will push EV mode to the limits routinely, and then Consumer Report's situation may occur.
Better explained, the lawsuit will focus on the i3's behavior below about 2% of charge, which can happen: (If it can happen, it WILL happen, especially if a driver isn't tech-savvy and tactically-clever enough to change the fate to an extent.):
One strategy is to stop once in a while and let the Rex get the battery charge up far enough to get bursts of power to overcome hills, headwinds, traffic conditions not under the direct control of the driver. Is everybody smart enough to play that game and win? Nope.
One strategy is to stop once in a while and let the Rex get the battery charge up far enough to get bursts of power to overcome hills, headwinds, traffic conditions not under the direct control of the driver. Is everybody smart enough to play that game and win? Nope.
BMW i3 owners were never warned about this before they bought their i3. There may be some compensation coming to remedy BMW's deception.
See http://insideevs.com/class-action-lawsuit-filed-bmw-unsafe-i3-rex-reduced-power-operation/
"The lawsuit seeks to have the vehicles redesigned and repaired at BMW’s expense, and to halt the sale of all i3 vehicles until repairs can be made. The claim also seeks compensation for all the owners of the vehicles, who were not told of the serious safety defect."
See http://insideevs.com/class-action-lawsuit-filed-bmw-unsafe-i3-rex-reduced-power-operation/
"The lawsuit seeks to have the vehicles redesigned and repaired at BMW’s expense, and to halt the sale of all i3 vehicles until repairs can be made. The claim also seeks compensation for all the owners of the vehicles, who were not told of the serious safety defect."
TOEd
Well-known member
In the first two months of ownership we have drove our i3 2890 km on battery and 3334 km on gas. During that time we used our emergency 5 litre gas can (kept in the frunk) 3 times when we ran out of gas. A fourth time we were able to shut off and restart the car and drive 1 km on battery to a gas station. Gas stations are difficult to find in some rural areas and our 7 litre fuel tank is very small. So we wouldn't travel without spare gas.
Great city car. Not so great for long distance travel. In over 40 years of driving, our recent trips are the only times I have run out of gas. So comparing running out of gas with the i3 and an ICE is not realistic.
Great city car. Not so great for long distance travel. In over 40 years of driving, our recent trips are the only times I have run out of gas. So comparing running out of gas with the i3 and an ICE is not realistic.
TOEd
Well-known member
Our salesperson was not about to point out limitations because he is on commission. In fact he promoted the free ChargeNow L3 charging to sell the $750 charge port. Unfortunately DC fast charging is not available to Canadians who travel to the USA. In Ontario Canada there is only one L3 charger that works with ChargeNow. It is located at BMW headquarters. Unfortunately it does not work as advertised. So is this misleading advertising?
