JohnKelly
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:02 am

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:16 pm

getakey wrote:"We do feel the Bolt one-pedal driving is a generation improved over the i3. The regeneration braking is much more positive."

I thought the i3 was pretty aggressive in regen braking. Seems like any more and it would be difficult to drive


I agree, the regenerative deceleration is perfect in the i3. It is very intuitive for new drivers, and takes only a few slow downs to get the feel for it. I can't imagine needing a more aggressive regen unless you spend a lot of time on very steep hills.
2015 REX / Participating on plugshare w/level 2 Clipper Creek 32 amp, Moclips, Washington coast

jackvjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:23 pm

JohnKelly wrote:
getakey wrote:"We do feel the Bolt one-pedal driving is a generation improved over the i3. The regeneration braking is much more positive."

I thought the i3 was pretty aggressive in regen braking. Seems like any more and it would be difficult to drive


I agree, the regenerative deceleration is perfect in the i3. It is very intuitive for new drivers, and takes only a few slow downs to get the feel for it. I can't imagine needing a more aggressive regen unless you spend a lot of time on very steep hills.


Your results and preferences can and do vary. I'm just providing mine; all I can say is driving both back-to-back regularly, I much prefer the Bolt's one-pedal characteristics.

jack vines

alohart
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:49 pm

jackvjr wrote:Those who need more, just buy the range they need, but the REx is a really, really questionable technology. That no one else offers it, or is likely to offer it, QED.

If I wanted a compact EV hatchback with 300 miles range, no BEV exists with these specs due to the relatively low energy density of current battery cells. An i3 Rex is the only car with these specs if one allows fast fuel tank refilling. It's not just a matter of buying the range one needs. Not sure why you consider technology that extends an EV's range without adding more than 10% to the car's weight to be questionable. It does what current battery cell technology cannot do. When the energy density and charging speed of battery cells increase considerably, a range extender won't be necessary.

A Chevrolet Volt and Fisker Karma both are range-extended EV's in which the electric motors provide full power without needing a boost from the ICE. So other manufacturers have built range-extended EV's like the i3 REx.
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

jadnashuanh
Posts: 4089
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:52 pm

The Volt has a unique transmission, and above certain speeds, to keep the EV motor from over reving, it starts to take power from the engine, rather than being all EV driven to the wheels. Depending on your driving situation, you may never engage that mode, though - it occurs at a moderately high speed. So, it can change from an EV, to serial hybrid, to a parallel one. As far as I know, that's unique in the world as well, but, the i8 is sort of like that, but the two axles are not interconnected, so it's either all EV, or both, but neither directly connected except for the generation of electricity. So, there's more than one way to skin the solution to moving.

There are some others that are planning a system similar to the i3's REx...Mazda is planning on using a rotary engine as a serial hybrid solution. There may be others, it's too early to tell.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV

theothertom
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:08 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:55 am

jackvjr wrote:F


1. If one uses the i3 follow-cruise feature, the Bolt is lacking and I do miss that.

2. I do prefer the i3 'shifter' on the steering column over that of the Bolt on the console.

3. As previously mentioned, the Bolt one-pedal experience is the best.

4. The cost differential show up most in the interior materials. The i3 has a nicer interior and better seats.

5. The range with the Bolt means never thinking about it in everyday local use. We plug it in if it ever drops below 100 miles but i3 in winter, range anxiety is ever-present. In a year's Bolt ownership, we've never needed to charge away from home.

6. The slightly longer/heavier Bolt has a better overall ride, with less pitch/toss.

7. The Bolt front/rear/overhead cameras on the main screen have proven a benefit, especially to my wife. Now, when pulling into most parking spaces, she will activate the cameras to confirm she's where she was aiming as to lines and curbs.

8. The Bolt doesn't have integrated navigation; the logic is everyone is more used to their phone these days. Plug in a smartphone and use the app you use everywhere else and it shows on the main center screen.

9. Our son says being able to use ApplePlay is a huge plus to him over the i3.

10. He says he notices the i3 has a tighter turning radius than the Bolt.

Hope these observations answer questions you might have had.

jack vines

Thanks Jack
I don't use the active cruise, so I wouldn't miss it on a Bolt. Also, I agree with Chevy's philosophy on no nav since I use my smart phone anyway. And Apple car play makes that easier. I like the regen braking in the i3 but I'm interested in in trying a stronger version. Extra cameras are always nice. It'll be interesting to see what happens when my lease is up.

jackvjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:49 am

If and when you go with the Bolt, do your homework on the DCFC option. Mine didn't come with it, so I have no first-hand experience, but some of those who do have DCFC seem to have expected Tesla Supercharger results and it isn't happening. Maybe really fast full range recharging is still a generation or two down the BEV timeline. (That, plus DCFC stations are still comparatively rare in most locales.)

“When using a DC charging station with at least 80 kW of available power, it will take approximately 30 minutes to recharge from a depleted battery to an estimated 90 mile of driving range. This time estimate is applicable to nominal temperature ranges. In extreme hot or cold conditions, this time may be lengthened. A full charge will take additional time.”


The Bolt has software which slows the charge rate as the battery fills to protect it for the eight year warranty. This seems to frustrate those determined to road trip in a BEV. The first 90 miles comes on fast, but to get to the full 238 miles takes hours.

DigitalEl
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:00 pm
Location: Not Quite Phoenix, AZ
Contact: Twitter

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:13 am

REx owner chiming in...

I've owned a new '17 since April. I've only had the REx kick in about 3 times and have bought only about 3 gallons of gas in that time. 99% of the time I don't need the REx, but I like being covered for the 1%.

In Phoenix (AZ, USA), you can drive for 50 miles one way and still be in the same metro. I live in a far west exurb. My wife had a doctor's appointment in Scottsdale (far north and east of Phoenix--same metro area). Even fully charged and with the 94 Ah battery, I needed the REx to get home. I could've sought out a hit of DC while in the East Valley, but sometimes you just don't want to.

When the car was new, I'd have taken the time to find a DC Fast and made an afternoon out of the trip. Now that it's just my car and not a fun new toy, I just wanted to get my wife to the doc, then return home to our side of town. REx allows that. We could've taken her ICE Honda, but we drove roughly 100 miles--at mostly 75 MPH freeway speeds, and spent $0 on fuel.

So yeah, covering the 1% trip means everything. Your mileage may vary.

viking79
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:10 am

jackvjr wrote:An apology to i3REx owners, but what's with that "range-extender"? (Before he or I owned BEVs, I told him not to go there when he leased his i3.) I mean if GM had the guts to go naked, how come BayEmVay pussied out with that REx abortion? (Thinking about it, I answered my own question. Being the i3 was an early BEV with limited range, BMWs market research indicated too few would buy in, so they hedged with an incredibly stupid technology which might ease the anxiety of those who hadn't really considered the whole picture.)

jack vines

I used my i3 REx to drive to Minneapolis from Cedar Rapids at 75 mph, a drive of about 278 miles. Also check that route and see how many CCS are along it. Hint, it's zero until you get to Minneapolis. I do this type of drive frequently enough that the Bolt EV wouldn't be usable for me. Until there are a lot more CCS chargers the i3 Rex makes a lot of sense to some people.

It isn't stupid technology, it is incredibly useful and saves a lot of weight. 10 or 15 more hp and an extra 3 gallons would make it perfect though.

jackvjr
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:41 am

If anyone here has been following the press releases, what rationale has BMW given for discontinuing offering REx in Europe?

Continuing the Bolt versus i3 comparision, upon returning to the Bolt, I note the Bolt subjectively rides better and feels as if it has longer wheelbase, even though it's 101.2"/102.4", so it's probably weight, 2961/3563, and rear drive/front drive. The i3 is a slightly better urban assault vehicle, with a slightly tighter turning radius; 33' for the i3 and 35.4' for the Bolt

In comparing specs, I noticed the i3 has a 9.67 gear ratio and the Bolt has a 7.05, but both are tire spec limited to 93 MPH.

jack vines

jadnashuanh
Posts: 4089
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: A Bolt owner has i3 regrets sometimes

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:08 pm

The European emission requirements are now tighter than those in the USA. Making the REx engine conform, given it's design mission, just didn't make sense to them. Europe tends to have much better public transport, so with 150+ miles on a charge, used as designed to commute or run around town, it has enough range. People typically either take the train or fly if they have to go further. From what I understand, they didn't want to put the REx in the car in the first place, but with the state of EV sales, the lack of charging infrastructure, the original battery capacity, and the 'newness', they felt it was required to win over buyers. Whether that decision was wise or not, time will tell.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV

Return to “General / Main i3 Owners Forum”