Nuclear powered i3 - really!

[nowtta60]

I just found out the Blue price promise tariff I'm on with EDF is sourced from 100% nuclear. That's my rental property working away.

At home I'm with Good Energy which is sourced entirely from renewables.

That's a wet fish around the face for the next smarty pants who comes up with the comment "But where does the electricity come from?". Thinking the answer is coal and gas.

Still got to wait till February for delivery. I could be using candle power by then if there's an asteroid lands in the atlantic and floods the stations along the coast.

PS Not sure how many of you are into your energy stuff - I'm a total nerd, have you seen this....

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Tells you what the mix of power is on the UK grid at any given time. Plus you can down load spreasheets of historic data if you want to argue about suitability of offshore windpower in the uk on internet forums ;-)

Or if there's enough grid capacity over night to charge lots of EVs. There is... right now (at 1:40am) demand is 25GW. At 5pm it was just under 40GW (closer to 50 GW in winter). So there's 15GW of plant that was shut down over night, or being kept in spinning reserve.

How many cars can a spare 15GW of capacity charge?

Assuming the average dialy use is 40 miles @ 0.3kWh/mile each car needs 12 kWh per night. ie a 3kW standard charge for 4 hours. Or a quick 7kW charge for less than 2.

15GW for 7 hours is 105GWh available (during the low rate economoy 7 period). Thats enough to charge 8.75 million cars with 12kWh. Or nearly half the UK fleet. Adn there's still addtional plant avaiable if needed in the day. Can't say much for the future though. some more nukes, wind and solar coming. Maybe not as fast as the coal plants shut down. I think if need be they'll run them an extra couple of years.

The last job I had was working with one of the Big 6 suppliers. They are currently working on the protocols that will allow the grid to talk to "things" and allow them to switch on and off whn the rates are good. And potentially allow you to sell electric back to the grid in the peak afternoon / early spot from your EV - making a killing on the spot prices. Buy at night for £0.08 sell for £1.00! As long as your commute home doesn't need the full battery.

Not sure whether that's an option on the iDrive menu yet ;-).

 

[fdl1409]

I am very interested in energy issues.
Bought an i3 in May. Will install 20 kW of photovoltaics on my roof in a few weeks, east and west side. I will produce 400% of my total energy consumption for i3 and household power. No nuclear or coal powered i3 for me.
Some time in the next few years after some extra insulation I will also convert the heating from Putin gas to brine water heat pump. Even after that I will produce more electricity than I consume.

Frank

 

[Stevei3]

Hi Frank,

this thread is derailing O.T. real fast, but ok: this is exactly why we have moved towards E-mobility as well. Step 2 towards energy independance. Our house is going to be fully electric, even the heating. Although electric heating is reasonably ineffective, the systems needed are, like a BEV, beautifully simple (and therefore less expensive to buy and to maintain). A bit of 'Nachheizung' in the heat exchanger system and some IR-radiation panels near sitting/working areas should do it. If you have enough PV, it doesn't matter that much that it's a tad less efficient IMHO. But do differ of opinion, by all means !

About nuclear power: there was a nice article in our newspaper a few years back about the Dutch railways. They were buying their electricity from France (EDF). Nearly all of it nuclear. So much for the environmentalists traveling by train They have bettered their behaviour since though.

Regards, Steven

 

[elptex]

Not sure what the exact 'on topic' discussion is, so I'll reply with what this thread got me thinking about.

#Nuclear In principal, I don't mind nuclear energy. It is technically renewable and clean...until something goes wrong. I used to think that it was only a problem in the hands of 3rd world countries, and then a tsunami hit Japan and mother nature couldn't be held off even by arguably the most tech advanced country in the world. In reality, there is more nuclear energy generated than people probably realize so hey-ho that's how it goes.

#"Green" and #self-sufficient. Generating our own electricity locally for heat is great. What's even better is removing the need for heat/cooling altogether. Namely, the 'Passive House' standards. If every newly built house applied passive standards, our overall need for electricity would drop massively: no A/C in the summer, even in hot, 35C+ climates; no heat in the winter, even in frozen, -20C climates.

#EV's Reducing demand on the grid for households means shifting energy use for things like EVs, driving advancements in technology and infrastructure to move forward with EVs. Imagining a world focused on efficiency instead of consuming (the general focus for humanity since the industrial revolution) and suddenly it feels really positive and happy.

 

[fdl1409]

Yes, of course, reducing demand is first priority.
Because of that, I will first insulate my house ( 1980 ) before installing a highly efficient heat pump. Makes the heat pump cheaper and more efficient as well. My heat pump will have a COP >4. I am running a heat pump in another building and have planned dozens, think I know what I am talking about.
I am a GP and have a practice usual size and equipment. My electricity demand there is only 400 kWh per year. Everything highest efficiency, for example my computers only need <10W idle. LED lighting , door bell running on battery instead of grid etc. Didn´t even cost much, most measures were necessary replacements, and efficient products frequently cost less than inefficient ones.

My PV will be on a rather unfavourable roof, yet will produce > 15.000 kWh per year. I will long term only use 10.000 for practice and household including heating and mobility with my i3.

20 years ago, I would not even have dreamt of owning a plus energy home and a car like this.

Frank

 

[nowtta60]

Don't think there really was a thread theme, to my original post. Was interested to see what other i3 owners are up to.

Similar situation to above. Got some flats to build on the side of my house (will be aiming for CSH Level 6 ) then retro work on the existing house. I'll be renting out most of the rooms, but installing PV to have a flat energy fee for the lodgers. Aim is to insulate [ in more wyas than 1] from future gas prices rises and get some FiT income for me. That and a heat pump once I'm more convinced of the CoP ratios in winter. Still think the ASHP isn't quite there and you need a switch over system that looks at the temp, the demand profile and either fires a boiler to fill a 500 litre tank, or used the HP to trickle heat the house via UFH. Tricky.

I used to be a big worrier about the CO2 stuff, but just decided - you know what - it doesn't really matter. We'll never be able to prove anything fully, and if the energy world does shift to none fossil, then a potential disaster might be averted. I'm more interesting in doing it because of future cost and energy conservation issues. As in true sustainability isn't about reducing CO2 - its about being able to use energy indefinitely without having to think when the source will run out or just get too expensive to use. Has anyone else read the studies done on the 2008 economic crash and relation to the oil price back then. Did it start with mortgage defaults in the USA? OR was the root cause people defaulting on mortgages in the USA because the higher oil price affected them more as there's less tax to buffer them than in Europe. Makes interesting reading.

As there's a flippin great big ball of fire in the sky, that according to the Desertec Initiative (http://www.desertec.org/) could supply the whole of Europe with 24 hours power from just a few hundred km2 of north Africa sent over HV DC interconnects. Seems bonkers not to give it a go.

That and some offshore wind and tidal power in the UK doesn't seem like a bad idea. Personally I like onshore turbines, but as they upset so many people, think we are best without them. Even if we spaced them at 500m intervals all over the UK, they'd only make a small contribution to total energy needs. Really good book is "Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air" by David Mackay. You can see it for free online here: http://www.withouthotair.com. Breaks down daily current and future usage of energy into kWh per person, And looks at where we could realistically source it from. But then I'm probably talking to the converted ;-)

I know a lot of people argue about the cost of green measures. But I just bought an i3. If I wanted to get something cheap I'd have bought an Aygo. Maybe that's the real issue - forcing everyone to pay more for energy. Rather than letting the market work out how to get it done cheaper. To me this is a null argument. I don't think they should be labelled green but - "future energy security" measures. Only 50% of the general public think climate change is a threat. But nearly everyone thinks future energy prices are a concern. You've got to get stimulus to allow time for economies of scale to work. Look what happened to the PV industry - 5 years ago Solar PV modules were over £4,000/kW, last time I looked they were £1,300/kW. IIRC the time they become cost competitive with the grid is when they get less than $1,000/kW or in UK money £593/kW. Doesn't look like we are that far away. If in 5 years time EVERYONE can get a greendeal to stick £3,000 PV system on the roof, and it's cheaper than buying from coal and gas generators, they can shut down for the summer. If the total cost to the UK tax payer was a couple of hundreds of millions in FiT funding over 25 years... what's the problem?

Add nukes for base load, use off shore wind to fill up man made lagoons or fill undersea spheres with air and let both be released in the peak. Bingo. A balanced renewable grid.

Personally I never thought it was a good idea for PV in the UK, and we should ship the panels somewhere else to get better output. But since costs have fallen dramatically as all the people taking the 25% lump sum from pensions have invested, I changed my mind.

Although I went with the i3, I really wanted a Tesla. But at £57k with options I thought I better wait till 2017 for the Model III. An i3 will do nicely till then, although 4 seats might be a problem if family grows as expected.

I just changed the thread title to reflect where its going. LOL

 

[elptex]

Great thoughts! I really enjoyed reading what you had to say there

Although I went with the i3, I really wanted a Tesla. But at £57k with options I thought I better wait till 2017 for the Model III.

Ditto! We really tried to make it work with the Tesla but in the end just didn't want to spend that much money on a car. We almost had it down to the monthly cost we were willing to spend because Tesla confirmed they are installing a SuperCharger a mere and very convenient 1 mile from where we work, which would have completely removed our monthly fuel costs. I told the sales guy that we will very likely be running in the door to put a deposit on a Model 3 as soon as it possible.

 

[nowtta60]

Great thoughts! I really enjoyed reading what you had to say there

Although I went with the i3, I really wanted a Tesla. But at £57k with options I thought I better wait till 2017 for the Model III.

Ditto! We really tried to make it work with the Tesla but in the end just didn't want to spend that much money on a car. We almost had it down to the monthly cost we were willing to spend because Tesla confirmed they are installing a SuperCharger a mere and very convenient 1 mile from where we work, which would have completely removed our monthly fuel costs. I told the sales guy that we will very likely be running in the door to put a deposit on a Model 3 as soon as it possible.

Don't forget 2017 is a long way away! Was talking to the BMW iSales guy. He thinks BMW will have a new Electric 3 saloon out by then. (that's just speculation not news!) Not a standard 3 with batteries and electric motor, but something in between the i3 and i8. Ha ha - slaps head - an i4! He thinks they will get carte blanche on design again. It will be 3 series sized but that's about it. Something swoopy and futuristic. I'm inclined to agree. The i brand is separate to the main BMW range - as is mini.

Makes you realise how much there is left to fill in the range. But really the i3 should be an i1 or i2

Actually last night as a comparison - I specced up a 120d auto with all the options I have on the i3, (except the DC charging, lol) and it came to well over £30k list. Don't recall it having active cruise control and lane assist either. Makes you realise how well they did to get the i3 with bits for £38k list. Ok £nearly 8k is a high premium to pay for an EV, but take of the grant and tax benefits and you are definitely well under what the 120d would cost. I think when more people realise that... well. Time will tell.

I'm off up to Westfield on my hols to have a look at the Tesla's. Will certainly be leaving my contact details for the "Model III waiting list" once it opens. What I love most is how they just went - sod the charging connector problems - we'll do our own thing and use the type 2 connector to make it simple. Why did they have to come up with CHAdeMO and CCS is beyond me. You'd have thought Betmax/VHS HDDVD/Bluray would have taught them something.

 

[fdl1409]

I fully agree with ( almost ) everything nowtta60 wrote - except onshore wind does have vast potential with todays turbines. I consider myself a heat pump expert, by the way, know how to make them highly efficient and low cost at the same time.

I feel the same about CO2. Even if tomorrrow there would be undisputable evidence that CO2 does not harm the climate, wouldn`t change a thing for me. I want to be independent from Russian gas and Arabian oil, and I want to preserve raw materials and live a sustainable life. Don´t care what everybody else thinks about that.

Also very interested in Tesla III. Quite like to buy a German car of course, but BMW have to put in some effort to compete with Tesla.

Frank