BMW/Bosch introduce a cheaper CCS Combo charger

According to greencarreports BMW and Bosch are coming out with a CCS Combo charging station that will be available to BMW dealers for $6,548.

Particularly relevant:
"For i3 drivers in California specifically, it'll be free too--at all NRG eVgo Freedom Station sites equipped with DC Combo Fast Charging, through 2015."

Now it would be great if we could get a schedule for when and where these will be installed! BEV owners can then rejoice

P.S. I hope you all ordered the "DC Fast Charging" option!

This is great news! For those of us in San Diego, we can now just pop over to Fashion Valley for a quick, free charge at any time. I guess depending on how much you use it, that $700 quick charge option can pay for itself before the end of 2015.

Unfortunately, as of a couple of weeks ago San Diego is the only operational Freedom Station with a combo charger that will charge the i3 in thirty minutes. Others are mentioned but there is no time table for when they will be on line. There are four planned for Orange County, California where I live. They will be located in shopping malls, however, none of them will be the combo type that will charge the i3. The mall operator says that they may install the Combo charger depending on demand. I'd love to know how they will determine that. As for Southern California, if all the BMW dealerships will install these new Bosch charging stations--perhaps two per dealership--that will take care of the needs of i3 owners given the substantial number of BMW dealerships and their convenient locations.

SDCAi3 said:

This is great news! For those of us in San Diego, we can now just pop over to Fashion Valley for a quick, free charge at any time. I guess depending on how much you use it, that $700 quick charge option can pay for itself before the end of 2015.

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Since the annual EPA estimated operating cost of the BEV for electricity is $500, it would be hard to recover $700 in a year even if you only fast charged. I think the real advantage is in extending the utility/reach of the car on a day-to-day basis.

I haven't read too much about Fast Charging regularly. I would expect that constant Fast Charging reduces the life of the battery modules. Anyone have actual insights on this?

drb said:

As for Southern California, if all the BMW dealerships will install these new Bosch charging stations--perhaps two per dealership--that will take care of the needs of i3 owners given the substantial number of BMW dealerships and their convenient locations.

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Yes, it would be GREAT if these got installed at every area BMW dealer and they are available 24/7. If the dealers are paying the cost, I wouldn't expect it to happen too quickly. Even if it's subsidized by BMW NA, I wouldn't expect it too quickly but I hope I'm wrong about that.

There will be over 100 DC Fast chargers that are CCS capable installed in California within about 18 months, some of them will be these units and some the 50kW larger ones. BMW's infrastructure team is definitely looking past California also, so they will begin to be installed in other states also. This is going to take a little time but this is a very good announcement and will only help speed up the DCQC infrastructure deployment as these units can be installed and maintained for substantially less than the larger 50kW units. I'll post new details here as I get them from BMW. I did a blog post about why I think this is really great news for anyone interested:

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/07/bmw-i-announces-new-dc-quick-charger.html

Good indeed (kinda obvious really).

What about Europe? What about the UK? Seems like another good example that BMW isn't giving much care to the UK.

Zzzoom3 said:

SDCAi3 said:

I haven't read too much about Fast Charging regularly. I would expect that constant Fast Charging reduces the life of the battery modules. Anyone have actual insights on this?

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The reason why it takes only an 80% charge in that 20-minutes is to save the battery. If you want a full charge, it takes maybe up to an hour as it tapers off the charge rate considerably to get that last 20%. At least, that's what they've been saying.

Zzzoom3 said:

SDCAi3 said:

This is great news! For those of us in San Diego, we can now just pop over to Fashion Valley for a quick, free charge at any time. I guess depending on how much you use it, that $700 quick charge option can pay for itself before the end of 2015.

Click to expand...

Since the annual EPA estimated operating cost of the BEV for electricity is $500, it would be hard to recover $700 in a year even if you only fast charged.

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Not sure the math is that simple. In SF, NRG has been pricing quick charge at $4.95 per session and $.20/minute under the plan without a monthly service fee. So a 20 minute quick charge would cost $8.95.

TomMoloughney said:

There will be over 100 DC Fast chargers that are CCS capable installed in California within about 18 months, some of them will be these units and some the 50kW larger ones. BMW's infrastructure team is definitely looking past California also, so they will begin to be installed in other states also. This is going to take a little time but this is a very good announcement and will only help speed up the DCQC infrastructure deployment as these units can be installed and maintained for substantially less than the larger 50kW units. I'll post new details here as I get them from BMW. I did a blog post about why I think this is really great news for anyone interested:

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/07/bmw-i-announces-new-dc-quick-charger.html

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Good writing Tom .. thanks

stumbledotcom said:

In SF, NRG has been pricing quick charge at $4.95 per session and $.20/minute under the plan without a monthly service fee. So a 20 minute quick charge would cost $8.95.

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$1.58 worth of electricity (commercial daytime national average electric rate is ~$0.105/kWh) for $8.95? No thanks.

I'll take it free through 2015, though!

ultraturtle said:

stumbledotcom said:

In SF, NRG has been pricing quick charge at $4.95 per session and $.20/minute under the plan without a monthly service fee. So a 20 minute quick charge would cost $8.95.

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$1.58 worth of electricity (commercial daytime national average electric rate is ~$0.105/kWh) for $8.95? No thanks.

I'll take it free through 2015, though!

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Yep FREE is great. After that, I'll have to assess how much I actually used it. There is a plan currently that is much lower but you pay a monthly fee. Also, these 50kW chargers pay a higher "demand" price. It's not the regular commercial rates. This is one of the reasons BMWs new fast charger is only 24kW so no demand pricing kicks in.

I must be missing something here... The BMW i3 has about 18Kwh of usable energy. This is a 24Kw DC fast charger. 80% of 18Kwh is 14.4Kwh. 30 Minutes of charging at 24Kw is 12Kwhr of power assuming no losses or charging taper at all.

How does that equal 80% in 1/2 hr????

Sranger said:

How does that equal 80% in 1/2 hr????

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It doesn't...

But, the demand thing is a reality...even when not using it, typically, a high current user that could request that power at any time of the day will pay for it at a different rate.

The car IS capable of that 80% in 30-minutes IF you have a source big enough. Same idea with level 2 EVSE's, you can only get a full charge in 3.5-4 hours IF it can deliver the full 30A. Being level 2 only means it is 240vac, and not 120vac, not that it can provide the max output the i3 can use. There are lots of lower output level 2 EVSE's out there.

If your battery state is not nearly depleted, which is probably more common, you'd still likely get near to that 80% in that timeframe, and for many people, that's enough.

stumbledotcom said:

Zzzoom3 said:

SDCAi3 said:

This is great news! For those of us in San Diego, we can now just pop over to Fashion Valley for a quick, free charge at any time. I guess depending on how much you use it, that $700 quick charge option can pay for itself before the end of 2015.

Click to expand...

Since the annual EPA estimated operating cost of the BEV for electricity is $500, it would be hard to recover $700 in a year even if you only fast charged.

Click to expand...

Not sure the math is that simple. In SF, NRG has been pricing quick charge at $4.95 per session and $.20/minute under the plan without a monthly service fee. So a 20 minute quick charge would cost $8.95.

Click to expand...

If we're going to delve into this further (it seems many folks on here love the detailed computations), I still stand by my original thought. The ChargeNow DC Fast program is free through Dec 2015. That's a full 17 months. If one were to drive 12,000 mi/yr, using a realistic 3.5mi/kWh (factoring in all the inefficiencies in the charging process and some spirited driving) translates to 4857 kWh needed over that 17 months. The lowest rate I can buy electricity here in San Diego is $0.16/kWh. That will cost me $777 over that 17 months. If Fashion Valley (or other Freedom Stations that pop up in the mean time) happens to be on your way to work or otherwise near your house or convenient and you use that station exclusively (assuming it's available when you get there AND it's operational), you could have the quick charge option paid for and then some (we humans love to rationalize our decisions, so this is one more way to rationalize the quick charge option to yourself or others). OF COURSE, that's a lot of "if's" and is feasible for a select few people, but it's possible nonetheless. It's a step in the right direction and we should all be applauding it in the name of increasing widespread EV adaptation. I live 5 mi from that charging station, and it's pretty much on my way to work and many other places I often go to, but I still plan to use my own EVSE for most of my charging for convenience. It is nice to know, however, that whenever I pop down to Fashion Valley for a 30 min visit to the mall, I can "fill up" for free in that short amount of time. Hopefully more i3 owners will get the same opportunity sooner than later.