Air conditioning failed

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MKH said:
would you be able to get the parts from one of previously crashed i3 - Would that work?

Don't think parts are the problem. The AC system runs through the entire battery pack - as it cools it during charging. Labor is the issue - to replace the entire AC system, the car pretty much needs to be dismantled, and the battery pack completely disassembled. Would be a daunting task for even BMW engineers to do, let-alone an owner/diy.

Sure, but the problem is possibly not in the battery pack. i3Alan told us that the system:

1. There was a leak, and the dealer didn't correctly diagnose it.
2. Possibly the service tech overfilled the the refrigerant, or failed to add the lubricant etc that caused the compressor self destruction.
3. Basic system system design is a terrible failure.

So, if it isn't easy to have the BMW replace it cheap, it would be better to take the i3 to find a good airconditioner dealer, test the pressure AC inside the battery pack, and if it is sealed, then replace the second parts from a broken i3. Fix the leaks, and replace the compressor. That would be way cheaper than paying thousands from the BMW dealer, and saving the i3 from sent it to the dump.
 
Sure, but the problem is possibly not in the battery pack. i3Alan told us that the system:

1. There was a leak, and the dealer didn't correctly diagnose it.
2. Possibly the service tech overfilled the the refrigerant, or failed to add the lubricant etc that caused the compressor self destruction.
3. Basic system system design is a terrible failure.

You left out #4. The compressor ground it self to scrap, pumping shrapnel and metal shavings and filings throughout the system. In a system as complex as the i3 Bev's, flushing will not remove all the metal contamination. Flush the system and replace the compressor, condenser, and orifice tubes, and in a few weeks, the compressor will fail again, due to the metal contamination still in the system damaging the new compressor. In a case like this, with a metal-contaminated system, no reputable AC shop would warranty the repair if they didn't replace the entire system, and no AC shop is going to agree to work on the full system, since it involves an unfamiliar car with high-voltage battery pack and electrical connections which can be major electrocution hazards.

My guess is that the Dealership's $20K quote for repairs included the cost of flying in a couple of people from the BMW i3/i8 production plant near Leipzig, Germany for the week or two that a repair job would take. Because it is obvious that this particular Dealership hasn't even the skills check and add Freon to an i3 AC system without screwing it up, let alone attempt a major repair on one,
 
Another aspect to consider is that BMW would necessarily have to replace the whole system for:

1. liability reasons such as if a metal shaving eventually punctures the battery and causes a fire, or
2. having to repeatedly replace the compressor as and when it fails in the future, since their first limited repair wouldn't be considered comprehensive in a court of law, a recurring expense BMW may not be willing to accept.

IOW, there are potential safety and expense issues with a non-comprehensive/limited trial fix.

So, if it comes down to it, an out of warranty i3 owner could potentially choose to take a calculated risk with having the system flushed as best as it can be and the compressor replaced at an independent BMW i-specialist shop (I heard there are a couple of them in Nashville), additionally minimizing use in summer until the repair proves itself to be a success over a period of time?
 
MKH said:
Flush the system and replace the compressor, condenser, and orifice tubes, and in a few weeks, the compressor will fail again, due to the metal contamination still in the system damaging the new compressor.

Couldn't they add a filter to prevent any remaining metal containments before it runs into the compressor?
 
Realoem shows BMW has gone thru several updates to the compressor, so it looks like this is (or was) a weak point:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=64526830620
 
So, if it comes down to it, an out of warranty i3 owner could potentially choose to take a calculated risk with having the system flushed as best as it can be and the compressor replaced at an independent BMW i-specialist shop (I heard there are a couple of them in Nashville), additionally minimizing use in summer until the repair proves itself to be a success over a period of time?

Certainly something that could be tried - but no way to completely minimize use - the system kicks in to cool the battery every time you plug it in to charge. A $1,000 to $2,000 gamble. Maybe adding an in-line debris screen like this would do the job.

https://www.airsept.com/Products/Details/32
 
Alan said the cost of repairing the AC for Total repair estimate was over $21,000

I reckon, if the filter is installed and second parts from a wrecked i3 it would run. Have the filter checked in a few weeks to see if there is parts in the filter.

That would keep the i3 running, and keep it without paying $21,000 or sending it to the dump.
 
I reckon, if the filter is installed and second parts from a wrecked i3 it would run.

Wouldn't need to take parts from a wreck. If BMW refuses to take care of the repairs, an option would be take it to an Auto AC shop, have them remove the damaged compressor, flush the system really well, install a new compressor, along with a suction screen to protect it, and see what happens. Might just keep the car on the road a few more years, or might not - with the i3 Bev AC system cooling/heating the cabin, and cooling/heating the battery, there are several 'paths' for the AC oil & Freon to flow, and I think the flow even changes direction in sections of the AC system depending on if heating or cooling, all controlled by a series of valves. Flushing the system may not really flush the system.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/i01-i3-hat/repair-manuals/64-heating-air-conditioning/64-52-compressor/

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/i01-i3-hat/repair-manuals/64-heating-air-conditioning/64-53-condenser-dryer-with-lines/
 
MKH said:
... Maybe adding an in-line debris screen like this would do the job.

https://www.airsept.com/Products/Details/32

Great to know; the comparison chart on the page alludes to traditional filters as well; didn't know that metal shavings are a common issue, not specific to the i3. Although there is a safety dimension specific to the i3 that, it looks like, could be mitigated by these filters. Although any shavings that plug a battery cooling channel could cause the battery modules to overheat?
 
Although any shavings that plug a battery cooling channel could cause the battery modules to overheat?

From this assembly video, looks like the cooling channels are in the bottom of the battery tray, and look fairly large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIan-1Eotlc
 
MKH said:
From this assembly video, looks like the cooling channels are in the bottom of the battery tray, and look fairly large.

They look fairly large to me as well. If there's a way to monitor the temperatures of the individual modules, that would provide additional assurance that a channel isn't plugged.

The compressor is clearly integral to the i3 drivetrain and IMO, BMW should warranty it as part of the drive train. Also it seems like BMW should have employed better engineering in terms of filters, sensors, etc., to mitigate the metal shavings risk.
 
a way to monitor the temperatures of the individual modules, that would provide additional assurance that a channel isn't plugged.

Yes - and since the battery cooling channels are in parallel, a system flush may not be adequate, as flow will take always take the path of least resistance. If one or more of the channels is partially blocked, they won't flush out, only the 'most open' channel(s) will get flow through them.

seems like BMW should have employed better engineering in terms of filters, sensors, etc., to mitigate the metal shavings risk.

Definitely! Since this seems to be a common thing, when an AC compressor in an i3 fails, and it can basically total the car, really something that should have been addressed in the design of the system.
 
This makes me so sad! i3 is built to last, at least that is what i believed but this completely changes that.

My car had trouble with compressor and it started making grinding mechanical sound.. Dealership replaced the compressor under warranty but they did not discharge/recharge freon. Not sure how they pulled that off. But i feel fortunate that this happened while car is still under warranty
 
How do you know that they didn't discharge the system? EPA law requires them to reclaim all refrigerant out of a system before making repairs, so the equipment is mandatory at every repair shop to remove the refrigerant, filter it, and return it to the car once the fix is completed and cooling system holds a vacuum.....
 
I called the general manager at the dealer last Friday (June 28), Chandler BMW. It was a most cordial call on both ends with Shane expressing disbelief, but a promise to throughly research my car history and whether other i3s have had this issue. I know his shop saw the same issue the week (or two) before mine and told him that. Shane promised to call BMW corporate to see if there was anything they could do to help make this right by me, and he promised to call me back on Monday or Tuesday. No return call (it is Thursday).

I called BMW customer service, which is the i-concierge customer service. I was told that if the regional service manager offered $2000 off on a new BMW, that such an offer is typically the final say from BMW on the matter. He offered to take any counter offer I wanted to make to the higher level committee, and their response would take 3-5 business days. I offered to give them an opportunity to withdraw the highly insulting offer of $2000 and make me a more reasonable offer to get me into another i3. That was rejected, and I was told to give him a dollar figure for a yes or no reply. I asked if BMW would provide me with a loaner while they deliberated. He said no, but that I could ask the dealer for that. Note that I am out $300 for the first service, and $200 for the privilege of getting a $22,300 repair quote, and have already used up the 5 days of loaner cars from the dealer for this effort. I told him no thank you, but that I would be in another manufacturer's electric vehicle within 3-5 business days.

Any recommendations on a class action law firm?
 
I'd go after the local dealership, since they worked on the AC system before it failed and mis-diagnosed the leak that ultimately led to the compressor failing. Odds are that their insurance will pay for the "malpractice" to settle before a trial, whereas BMW will throw a whole pack of bored corporate lawyers at a class action suit and have it dismissed after 3-5 years of stalling.....
 
I agree with vreihen. First, to file a class action law suit you need a large group of people who have had the same issue, and second, the only people who get anything but satisfaction out of a class action law suit are the lawyers. I'd sue the Dealer for damages. The dealer either misdiagnosed the issue, and though paid to do so, failed to make timely repairs, resulting in the damage, or they incorrectly overcharged the system or failed to add the correct freon/oil mixture to the system, resulting in the damage, or a combination of both. Check your repair bills. Do they say the repair work is warrantied for any period of time? Even if not stated on the bill, a court will likely rule that is implied. Consult an attorney, and get an idea of what this will cost you (too large an amount for small claims court) in both money and time, and determine if you want to proceed - would seem to be a pretty strong case for negligence. The Dealer may look at the cost to defend against the claim in court, and decide to fold and negotiate a settlement well before it ever gets that far. Also, you should file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. In some areas they have quite a bit of clout.
All said, if you determine the cost to pursue the Dealer is too much, or won't be effective, if it were my car, I think I'd weigh the chance and cost of taking it to an independent AC shop, along with printouts or links from the BMW service manual for the system, and the specs for pressurizing the system, and the special freon/oil mix it takes, have them flush the system, put in that debris screen that is supposed to protect the compressor, and see if that allows a few more years of life from the car, before just dumping it for salvage.
 
i3Alan said:
I was told to give him a dollar figure

FWIW, I would give him a dollar figure for what the current value of a similarly optioned i3 and model year (say $15k for a bare 2014) and see what happens with a possible additional condition that you would keep the car. You might also want to update your FB post with the latest; in fact, the compressor issue is currently trending in 2 posts today in the FB group, so your update would make it 3. I would also mention to iCOncierge that many people on the FB group are concerned with how BMW is treating this issue. It's possible BMW is also monitoring that FB group since they recently pointed to it in their notification about closing their iforums, so that might wake them up. Also ask to speak to "the manager" higher and higher up the chain.
 
vreihen said:
How do you know that they didn't discharge the system? EPA law requires them to reclaim all refrigerant out of a system before making repairs, so the equipment is mandatory at every repair shop to remove the refrigerant, filter it, and return it to the car once the fix is completed and cooling system holds a vacuum.....


Its mentioned on the service notes

" 6452530 Removing and installing electric A C compressor ( without extraction, discharging and charging) 428116 WA
1 64-52-9-496-107 ELECTRIC A/C COMPRESSOR : 645014
1 64-53-9-284-018 GASKET RING : 889520
1 64-53-9-284-019 GASKET RING : 889520
1 64-53-9-284-020 GASKET RING : 889520
FC: 6452003900
CLAIM TYPE : 1W

There are some notes at the bottom that i am just seeing now:

PARTS:
25127 AC Compressor noisy verify noise from rear of vehicle with AC on. Inspect and found compressor noisy. recover AC system and disable high voltage system replace compressorrecharge and check noise no longer present
 
I know nothing about a/c systems. Is there a filter on the i3's a/c system just prior to the compressor that can remove contaminants like metal? If not, is there such a thing that can be fitted if/when a new system is installed?
 
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