SloMoShun
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:32 am

Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:26 pm

As the title states : Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Both would feed from a nema 14-50 not hardwired. This would be my daily charging setup.

Only thing that worries me is that I can't lock the charger to the car with the tesla charger. I don't live in a gated community, and at work it might accessible from outside.

jadnashuanh
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Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:17 pm

The Tesla adapter plugs into the car, and then provides a socket to plug a J1772 into.

A Tesla wall charger, I think, has a Tesla plug on it, no adapter required. If I understand correctly, no, you cannot use one of their wall charging units with an i3 as their adapter would have a female J1772 on it, you'd need a female, and then, the protocols aren't the same.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV

vreihen
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Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:31 am

Is the i3 limited to 32A no matter what the charger can provide? Can the Tesla charger do 32A? Can the TeslaTap ( expensive adapter) do 32A?
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World, Tech and Driving Assistant packages, 15K miles

SloMoShun
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Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:32 am

Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:36 am

My reasoning is, that I can find the tesla to j1772 adapter for around $230, and a used tesla wall charger for around $330-380. for a total of ~$610.

However, I would have the ability to charge at Tesla destination chargers and tesla walls, giving me more flexibility on the road. Hell, I can even take the charger with me, and use it as a level 1 or two charger depending on the adapters I take. Well knowing im a guest here, and in case other chargers are busy, don't intend to become a gasshole.

Costco has a $50 off a Jucebox 40a ($500+tax) charger with the Nema 14-50. Which is what the 32 amp version retails for, and the 40 gives me a bit of extra juice in case a friends comes over with a car that can use it.

Both are a bit overkill for the i3, but was wondering if anyone here charges on a tesla charger on the daily.

Also, really want to move to L2 charging, while I can usually charge completely before I leave, some days it catches up to me and will leave without a full battery. It usually doesn't matter, but want the fast charging for those occasions and weekends. Not to mention the heat losses L1 generates.

TIA

3pete
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Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:03 pm

Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:35 pm

It probably depends how much value you think there is in the TeslaTap to justify the extra cost and hassle. And how much do you really expect to charge 'on the road' vs. at home?

Do you plan to disconnect your tap from the EVSE and take it with you every time you unplug? If so, you're going to add an extra step to both your unplugging and plugging routine. It doesn't sound like much, but if you charge once a day it adds up.

One of the biggest benefits I found of going to a 'permanent' L2 charger was that I didn't have to get the OCU charger out of the frunk when I got home. It's easy to grab the L2 connector off my wall and plug in with one hand. It probably takes two hands to do at least a disconnect or a connect to the tap. Again, not a huge deal, just something to consider if you'll be doing it hundreds of times a year.

Does the TeslaTap lock to the EVSE cable somehow? Could someone come by and unplug the EVSE from the tap while it was charging? What about if it's not charging (if you left it attached to the EVSE one day when you went to work)?

If you're looking at $610 for the TeslaTap + wall charger or $500 for a Juicebox, I'd lean towards going for the (new) dedicated J1772 EVSE at home since you'll save about half the cost of the TeslaTap anyway. You could start off there, $110 "ahead" with a 50/50 chance you made the right decision. If you really find you need a TeslaTap, you could buy it later (maybe cheaper) and you "lost" $120 on the gamble but you get: a new EVSE instead of a used one and the convenience of not having to worry about an adapter on a daily basis (which also means you're less likely to forget it at home some time you actually need it). Or, you could look for a used/ or cheaper EVSE in the 24-32amp range if you mostly expect to charge overnight.

Full disclosure: I have a Juicebox 40 and I'm pleased with it.

jadnashuanh
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Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:20 pm

The Tesla tap, connects a TESLA car's female to a J1772 plug (female) (it has a male plug on one end to plug into a TESLA, and a FEMALE socket to plug a J1772 plug into it). What you'd need for an i3 is a TESLA female to a J1772 male, the exact opposite. IOW, it won't work, nor is the protocol the same. The TESLA tap, plugs into the Tesla, then has a female socket to plug a J1772 charging cable into it, making it look like (in this case) an i3.

You can use the TESLA tap to connect a TESLA to a J1772, but it won't work the other way.

The J1772 protocol announces how much power it has, and the vehicle attached uses that to then limit the maximum it tries to pull from the source, thus, preventing it from overloading the EVSE. Keep in mind, the charging circuit is in the i3...the EVSE just provides acv. Think of plugging in your cell phone to the wall socket with an adapter...it may only use 10W, but the 15A circuit could supply over 1500W. In the case of a car, it's smarter. The EVSE just is a fancy on/off switch with some logic in it for safety purposes.

Not sure how many different ways I can say this...the sexes of the ends are opposite of what you need for an i3.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV

vreihen
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Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:57 pm

jadnashuanh wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:20 pm
Not sure how many different ways I can say this...the sexes of the ends are opposite of what you need for an i3.
I think that you are confusing Tesla's glovebox ornament adapter for charging their cars from a J1772 power source for the TeslaTap (not made or sold by Tesla):

Image

https://www.amazon.com/TeslaTap-Tesla-J ... 07N55QKFH/

The TeslaTap was designed to use a Tesla home charger (or L2 "destination" charger) with a J1772 car. Note that it does NOT work with a Tesla Supercharger.....
2015 BMW i3 BEV, Giga World, Tech and Driving Assistant packages, 15K miles

jadnashuanh
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Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:31 pm

Okay, yes, I was wrong - I was mistaking that for the Tesla product. That probably will work.

What could get messy is the pilot signal, which is the thing that tells the vehicle how much current is available from the EVSE. If that reports incorrectly, or says more is available than the device can actually source, you could overload the wiring feeding the box, and the internals of the box.

At least in the USA, up to now, the maximum the i3 can use to charge level 2 is 7400W, so depending on the voltage supplied, you may need up to about 32A to max it out. The protocol is for amps, though, not watts. A nominal 240vac supply will need 30.8A (7400/240). A 32A unit would allow the i3 to maximize its internal power supply. My local supply voltage tends to be 248vac, and with my 30A unit, it could provide 30*240=7440W, or enough to max out my car's charging capabilities. Some commercial power tends to be 208V, so 208*32A=6656W, or quite a bit short of maximizing the i3's lust for power. But, since it reports the amount of amps available, the car won't try to pull more than the thing says it has.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV

givmedew
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Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:14 pm

jadnashuanh wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:31 pm
Okay, yes, I was wrong - I was mistaking that for the Tesla product. That probably will work.

What could get messy is the pilot signal, which is the thing that tells the vehicle how much current is available from the EVSE. If that reports incorrectly, or says more is available than the device can actually source, you could overload the wiring feeding the box, and the internals of the box.

At least in the USA, up to now, the maximum the i3 can use to charge level 2 is 7400W, so depending on the voltage supplied, you may need up to about 32A to max it out. The protocol is for amps, though, not watts. A nominal 240vac supply will need 30.8A (7400/240). A 32A unit would allow the i3 to maximize its internal power supply. My local supply voltage tends to be 248vac, and with my 30A unit, it could provide 30*240=7440W, or enough to max out my car's charging capabilities. Some commercial power tends to be 208V, so 208*32A=6656W, or quite a bit short of maximizing the i3's lust for power. But, since it reports the amount of amps available, the car won't try to pull more than the thing says it has.
This is very very good to know. If I'm understanding you correctly then a 40a charger may be necessary to charge the i3 at full speed if you. I'm guessing my 220/240 is going to be double my 110/120 so for me that seems a pretty darn solid 120. Doesnt fluctuate much either but I've lived all over and have certainly been placed that struggled to get 110v and during the day I've seen value as low as 100 at other homes. I've never checked my 220/240 and I dont have my 220/240 UPS networked and it doesn't have a display. But correct me if I'm wrong it should just be twice the other voltage.
2014 i3 REx bought 24k has 37k 06/19
Retired Chevy Volt (blown gas engine at 97k)

jadnashuanh
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: Does getting a tesla wall charger and a Tesla to j1772 adapter make more sense than a 40A juicebox ?

Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:31 am

Except in some areas outside of the USA, the i3's maximum internal charging circuits can handle 7400W. So, using power=volts * amps, 7400/240=30.833A. As your input voltage changes up or down, the power would change. The EVSE reports how many amps it has (not power). My typical home voltage is closer to 247vac, so my 30A EVSE can usually max out the car's charging circuits.

Having a larger capacity EVSE might help you optimize later car purchases since those with larger batteries tend to have a higher internal charging capacity. IOW, the car won't try to use more power than the device says it has, but obviously, may not use all that is available similar to plugging in a 5W phone charger or a 1500W space heater to a 120vac circuit doesn't overload the circuit. The car/EVSE are smarter, though, as the car can adjust how much it draws from the circuit.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV

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