RExingIT
Well-known member
It was my understanding that the November update was supposed to be free. My dealer is telling me that have to charge for it. Can anyone point me to the official BMW statement on it?
Thanks.
Thanks.
November Update,...free?
- Thread starter RExingIT
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websterize
Well-known member
You have to say it a certain way. Say your ch@rger at home clicks when preconditioning the vehicle, and then point them to SI B12 38 15:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=881015
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=881015
Blue20
Well-known member
Just booked an appointment for my i3's airbag recall. The dealer said they need to upgrade the software as well. They didn't say it is chargable. For these two fixes, they want the car to stay overnight!!! :roll:
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
Last time I was in, I asked the service manager about the airbag recall (mine does not need it). He said that on the i3, they have to dismantle most of the dash to get to the airbag...IOW, a lot of labor. Reprogramming the vehicle depends on partly when the last time you were in, and how many modules must be reflashed. From what I'm told, the dealership does not actually have those codes in house...they connect the car to their computer, and the computer makes a link to BMW headquarters, and they push it. If there's an internet glitch, they may need to redo a module, and it can take awhile depending on how busy things are. IF there are no issues, it can go quite fast. Overnight is safer...they might get done sooner.
davidviolin
Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2015
- Messages
- 7
BMW does not offer software updates, except if there is an issue, OR its an i3. Just got mine, and they did not charge me anything. Had the car overnight, gave me a loaner, and total was 0.
Its really for their own benefit, as it fixes the potential of the engine mount breaking, saving them money.
Love the new software update, I now have 19.7KW useable battery, the idrive feels quicker, notification of open charge door, and a few other fixes which really makes the car feel better than before. Highly recommended!
Its really for their own benefit, as it fixes the potential of the engine mount breaking, saving them money.
Love the new software update, I now have 19.7KW useable battery, the idrive feels quicker, notification of open charge door, and a few other fixes which really makes the car feel better than before. Highly recommended!
TomMoloughney
Well-known member
RExingIT said:
It's definitely free. Call the BMW i concierge if your dealer insists on charging you for it the iConcierge will contact the dealer to straighten them out.
I had my software upgrade a couple of weeks ago and it took over 2 days, during which I was given an i3 loaner. A nice touch.
I received a customer feedback courtesy call from my dealership yesterday and I tried to be as constructive as I can, because I do like the i3. I've done a lot of work with automotive retail systems, so have some industry knowledge. I know that the dealership is unlikely to receive any financial benefit for performing upgrades like this - I certainly didn't pay a penny for it. Understandably, they are slightly loathed to perform this type of work, especially if it is new territory for the mechanics, who even have to get (and wait for) permission from BMW to perform any work on the vehicle.
I was ok with the 2 day wait for a software upgrade, but what I found annoying was that I was asked 3 times whether there is an actual problem with my car. The dealership software system required this in order for the mechanics to even look at the car. To me, this shows that there is a problem in the approach and business process with these new type of vehicles. Since the i brand so far only represents 1% of global sales, not everyone is really paying full attention. At least that is my guess.
What I tried to point out in my feedback is this: software upgrades (TVs, computers, smartphones, etc) are commonplace these days and people do expect them to be done swiftly and -preferably- automatically. Tesla, the leading brand in EVs, offers OTA updates. Tesla owners even receive some additional new features like Autopilot for free. One might argue that this justifies a purchase price more than twice as high as the i3. Renault Zoes can be upgraded from an SD memory card, which the owner can copy onto and then run the update from the card slot in the SatNav. In comparison, upgrading an i3 appears more like turn-of-the-century, old-skool style. On the other hand, you could maintain that something as important as a car software update should be the remit of a trained and experienced BMW i workshop.
I was fully aware of issues like this when I bought the car. I've been working with tech for too long to naively expect that every salesperson, mechanic and call handler is 100% up-to-speed on every aspect of this vehicle, whilst its share in BMW sales is still relatively low.
I received a customer feedback courtesy call from my dealership yesterday and I tried to be as constructive as I can, because I do like the i3. I've done a lot of work with automotive retail systems, so have some industry knowledge. I know that the dealership is unlikely to receive any financial benefit for performing upgrades like this - I certainly didn't pay a penny for it. Understandably, they are slightly loathed to perform this type of work, especially if it is new territory for the mechanics, who even have to get (and wait for) permission from BMW to perform any work on the vehicle.
I was ok with the 2 day wait for a software upgrade, but what I found annoying was that I was asked 3 times whether there is an actual problem with my car. The dealership software system required this in order for the mechanics to even look at the car. To me, this shows that there is a problem in the approach and business process with these new type of vehicles. Since the i brand so far only represents 1% of global sales, not everyone is really paying full attention. At least that is my guess.
What I tried to point out in my feedback is this: software upgrades (TVs, computers, smartphones, etc) are commonplace these days and people do expect them to be done swiftly and -preferably- automatically. Tesla, the leading brand in EVs, offers OTA updates. Tesla owners even receive some additional new features like Autopilot for free. One might argue that this justifies a purchase price more than twice as high as the i3. Renault Zoes can be upgraded from an SD memory card, which the owner can copy onto and then run the update from the card slot in the SatNav. In comparison, upgrading an i3 appears more like turn-of-the-century, old-skool style. On the other hand, you could maintain that something as important as a car software update should be the remit of a trained and experienced BMW i workshop.
I was fully aware of issues like this when I bought the car. I've been working with tech for too long to naively expect that every salesperson, mechanic and call handler is 100% up-to-speed on every aspect of this vehicle, whilst its share in BMW sales is still relatively low.
RExingIT
Well-known member
TomMoloughney said:
Tom, Thanks. I called the i Congierge. They indicated that a bulletin was coming out in a few days to the dealers letting them know that the updates are supposed to be free. Doesn't necessarily help me yet, but I think it's going to take them a while to figure out the other issue with the car as it's not throwing any fault codes for the Re-gen issue
SSi3
Well-known member
RExingIT said:
Maybe they should have issued that bulletin to dealers BEFORE releasing the software update... :roll:
Jeffj
Well-known member
I think what we are seeing with this last update is the result of 4 distinctly different organizations all operating with only loose communication between them:
BMW AG - produces the updates, has to run QA and ensure that the update package runs across their entire global fleet (all vehicles, all countries, etc.) They operate on their own schedule and their schedule takes priority over everyone else
BMW NA - They coordinate all the BMW's coming into NA, but they have no responsibility for producing software.
BMW NA iDivision - According to Tom M, the i sub-Brand is run almost as a separate business. The iConcierge (I'm guessing) is part of the iDivision, not BMW NA
The Dealers - These are all independent businesses. None of them report to BMW AG nor BMW NA. They have rules and policies that they must follow as part of their franchise agreements, but ultimately they are free and independent businesses. This, btw, is why there is such a huge variance in quality of i sales and service. Some of them get it and embrace it, others resist it. Like it or not, the dealer infrastructure is cemented in North America and its influence is enormous. Yes, Tesla and others are changing the mentality, and there are legal battles occurring, but there are ~8,000 to ~10,000 Dealership groups in North America (ranging from Auto Nation to single store owners), and they have legislation that protects their business. They aren't going to just roll over and accept all dealerships going away. Dealerships employ something on the order of 1M people in North America and have revenues nearing a trillion dollars.
While I don't like it, I understand the situation. Luckily for me, my local dealership is one that "gets it". Others aren't so lucky.
BMW AG - produces the updates, has to run QA and ensure that the update package runs across their entire global fleet (all vehicles, all countries, etc.) They operate on their own schedule and their schedule takes priority over everyone else
BMW NA - They coordinate all the BMW's coming into NA, but they have no responsibility for producing software.
BMW NA iDivision - According to Tom M, the i sub-Brand is run almost as a separate business. The iConcierge (I'm guessing) is part of the iDivision, not BMW NA
The Dealers - These are all independent businesses. None of them report to BMW AG nor BMW NA. They have rules and policies that they must follow as part of their franchise agreements, but ultimately they are free and independent businesses. This, btw, is why there is such a huge variance in quality of i sales and service. Some of them get it and embrace it, others resist it. Like it or not, the dealer infrastructure is cemented in North America and its influence is enormous. Yes, Tesla and others are changing the mentality, and there are legal battles occurring, but there are ~8,000 to ~10,000 Dealership groups in North America (ranging from Auto Nation to single store owners), and they have legislation that protects their business. They aren't going to just roll over and accept all dealerships going away. Dealerships employ something on the order of 1M people in North America and have revenues nearing a trillion dollars.
While I don't like it, I understand the situation. Luckily for me, my local dealership is one that "gets it". Others aren't so lucky.
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
The dealerships do NOT eat the labor for performing one of these updates...they are reimbursed. Now, whether the rate is what they like, I do not know. Now, if you went in every month and asked for the latest incremental software update, you'd probably not get that unless there was a problem with your vehicle and that update addressed that issue...they wait until there's some tipping point or a safety issue, or what is determined to be a reliability issue that affects all vehicles before they do a general software update.
ALL BMW's require them to hook to their computer system to verify and identify error messages. Some are stored in your key fob, but not the complete set if there are more complex entries than it is designed to handle. Not all OBD readers can identify much of any of the BMW specific codes. Then, not all service locations can troubleshoot and fix software related issues with a BMW. Also, keep in mind that there are incremental changes to various modules that comprise the vehicle, and they may each require slightly different coding. This, I think, is the reason why BMW needs the vehicle hooked up to their central server to be evaluated, and then a vehicle specific software package is then pushed down to it. Trying to push data to a module that doesn't exist or has a different version number in the vehicle could easily lead to failure, so it must be vehicle specific. Trying to make the coding backwards compatible with all modules and all versions is tougher and the volume of code bigger, which means longer to load and verify. Better to keep it smaller and tighter. Unfortunately, that also means fixing it is more limited to the dealerships verses independents except for some mechanical items. But, even replacing the battery takes programming. BMW uses the age, size, and type of battery to adjust the charging rate and evaluate its current state of charge. Not all independents are capable of that, but could easily swap a battery (probably not in the i3, but others).
As vehicles get more and more computer controlled, this gets more specialized.
ALL BMW's require them to hook to their computer system to verify and identify error messages. Some are stored in your key fob, but not the complete set if there are more complex entries than it is designed to handle. Not all OBD readers can identify much of any of the BMW specific codes. Then, not all service locations can troubleshoot and fix software related issues with a BMW. Also, keep in mind that there are incremental changes to various modules that comprise the vehicle, and they may each require slightly different coding. This, I think, is the reason why BMW needs the vehicle hooked up to their central server to be evaluated, and then a vehicle specific software package is then pushed down to it. Trying to push data to a module that doesn't exist or has a different version number in the vehicle could easily lead to failure, so it must be vehicle specific. Trying to make the coding backwards compatible with all modules and all versions is tougher and the volume of code bigger, which means longer to load and verify. Better to keep it smaller and tighter. Unfortunately, that also means fixing it is more limited to the dealerships verses independents except for some mechanical items. But, even replacing the battery takes programming. BMW uses the age, size, and type of battery to adjust the charging rate and evaluate its current state of charge. Not all independents are capable of that, but could easily swap a battery (probably not in the i3, but others).
As vehicles get more and more computer controlled, this gets more specialized.
tiburonh
Well-known member
Blue20 said:
I brought my 2014 BEV in for the airbag recall as scheduled at 8:30 AM on 12/17. Asked my dealer to please do the November software update at the same time. Thankfully got no push back whatsoever about doing the software update (at no charge.). Was initially told the car would be ready the afternoon of 12/17. When afternoon came, was told they needed to keep the car overnight and it would be ready mid morning on 12/18. When midmorning came on 12/18 was told it would be first thing after lunch on 12/18. It was finally ready in the middle of the afternoon on 12/18. An annoying process to say the least. I chalk it up to two things: (1) the i3 is a limited volume car and so most of the techs at most of the dealers are not trained to work on it, and (2) even for the techs who do work on the i3, many of the problems that arise are first-time problems with which they are not familiar and which require them more time than they might expect in order to solve them.
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
California is 9-hours out of sync with Germany. All of the software updates are customized for your specific vehicle. If there's a glitch in either that or the link to the server in Germany, it could create an error, and then a retry, all of which can take a bunch of time. When it goes right the first time, it doesn't take all that long. IOW, the software required to load your specific car is NOT in your dealer's computer...it is pushed from Germany after it is hooked up.
The passenger side airbag replacement on an i3 is a lot more time consuming than it is on many vehicles...they have to dismantle most of the dash to accomplish it. I'm sure if you've done that before, it may go smoothly, but there are a bunch of parts that have to be removed and replaced and aligned so things both fit and don't rattle or squeak afterwards. Assuming that they did that first before trying to reprogram the car, that was probably the major portion of the time.
The passenger side airbag replacement on an i3 is a lot more time consuming than it is on many vehicles...they have to dismantle most of the dash to accomplish it. I'm sure if you've done that before, it may go smoothly, but there are a bunch of parts that have to be removed and replaced and aligned so things both fit and don't rattle or squeak afterwards. Assuming that they did that first before trying to reprogram the car, that was probably the major portion of the time.
