Stevei3
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:11 am

Hi guys,

an increase of ca. 57 % seems a possibility (60 Ah to 94 Ah per cell). This is going around on various forums:

http://pushevs.com/2015/10/23/samsung-s ... -in-china/

As much guarantee on the intel as on the Tesla model III factsheet though ;)

Regards, Steven

psquare
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:04 am

Stevei3 wrote: an increase of ca. 57 % seems a possibility (60 Ah to 94 Ah per cell). This is going around on various forums:
As much as I'd love to see a bigger range increase, can I just remind everyone that this is the traditional car industry we're talking about? At this point in time, they're not thinking of achieving any super-density batteries in the short to medium term to catch up with Tesla (who have gone for niche, premium, high-price, geeky customer). For now, the i3's battery only needs to keep pace with what Nissan and Renault are doing, plus being sportier. This makes sense from an engineering and cost perspective.

I think the first big leap in range (ie 150-200mi all-electric) from a BMW i vehicle can be expected when the i5 (or whatever it will be named) is announced.

As far as the next 3-5 years are concerned, PHEV will see more adoption - that's where the masses will go. And: These are the vehicles that give people an idea of what electric motoring CAN look like, and I am sure most will be hooked and want more. I mean, look at all these folks in their Outlander PHEVs, desperate to recharge their small batteries to get another 20mi fully electric. THIS is the segment the manufacturers will focus on, because it means big unit sales and low battery costs.

Boxbrownie
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:02 am

With the new 30Kwh Leaf they are talking about 150 mile range, I reckon the i3 would have to come very close to this to retain the "ultimate charging machine" label ;)

I plan on the i3 for early next year (after I have got rid of my 10 month old Audi emission clagger), shame as I traded in my A6 Hybrid for the Q3.........should have sticked with Hybrid tech for a bit longer it appears :(

But I am sure it will be better to lease the 2016 i3 than buy, maybe the next i3 will be "the one" that will see me out!
Best regards........David

If anything in my post offends you please let me know, I may wish to offend you again. ;)

psquare
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:56 pm

Boxbrownie wrote:With the new 30Kwh Leaf they are talking about 150 mile range, I reckon the i3 would have to come very close to this to retain the "ultimate charging machine" label ;)
These people claim to have test-driven one:
The new Leaf 30kWh will reach around 130 miles under normal driving conditions though, and that is without trying particularly hard.

http://www.nextgreencar.com/review/7300 ... wh-review/

This is great progress, but unfortunately there's no Moore's Law for batteries.

Stevei3
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:11 pm

psquare wrote:As much as I'd love to see a bigger range increase, can I just remind everyone that this is the traditional car industry we're talking about?
Hi,

I have to agree on that in general, with one added caveat: we’re talking about the traditional car industry on the brink of paradigm change. Never before (…well…, let me phrase it like that for dramatic purposes) have car companies relied on outside suppliers for key components like in the electric car business. So we can’t be sure how BMW will react if a drop-in replacement battery with equivalent specs but higher capacity becomes available. Maybe out of ‘Ehrgeiz’ or out of competetive considerations they will be offering larger batteries. Or maybe there’s a business case in there somewhere, like @ Tesla: charge more for more charge ;) We’ll see. The struggle of every car company involved is interesting to watch to say the least.

In the mean time, we won’t stay put, but will be driving >125k miles with our tiny, tiny battery (and a little drop of juice now and then) in the five years we plan to own our current i3. Current stats: 20 months, 42k miles.

Regards, Steven

psquare
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:51 am

Stevei3 wrote:So we can’t be sure how BMW will react if a drop-in replacement battery with equivalent specs but higher capacity becomes available. Maybe out of ‘Ehrgeiz’ or out of competetive considerations they will be offering larger batteries.
It's an interesting idea, if what you are saying is that this "drop-in" battery is coming from a 3rd party rather than BMW. If I interpreted this right, then I do see problems with warranty though, as BMW will insist that any tampering with the batteries would void the warranty.

A specific 3rd party i3 drop-in battery would also be expensive to produce, I would imagine, as there is no cell-size standard, which could make the batteries compatible with other vehicles and models. Tricky that one.

fdl1409
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:54 am

I expect BMW will offer the new larger battery from early 2016, as until 31st Dec. there is a discount for the present model in Germany. The new Samsung 94 Ah cells raise capacity and range by 56%, which is quite some leap. Those cells AFAIK have exactly the same dimensions as the old 60 Ah cells, so there is no need to change packaging. A seamless change from 60 to 94 Ah is possible. The next generation with 120 Ah cells is expected in 2019.

Frank
BMW i3 REx

Stevei3
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:48 am

psquare wrote:It's an interesting idea, if what you are saying is that this "drop-in" battery is coming from a 3rd party rather than BMW
Hi,

now that would be a really interesting proposition. It is not unfeasible, liability issues notwithstanding...
But I meant to say that the 94 Ah cell from Samsung seems to be a drop-in replacement for the 60 Ah cell (see also Frank's comment). Drop-in meaning, in this case, that nearly all the characteristics of the part are equivalent, so the part (in this case: the cell) can be fitted without altering circuits, assemblies or production processes.
So BMW could be able to do the dropping-in itself: the same batterypacks could be built using the higher capacity cells. It is interesting to see if they will. My guess is that a lot will depend on the price BMW has to pay Samsung for the added capacity and the guarantees that Samsung SDI can offer.

Regards, Steven

PS, BTW: a larger battery will not only add range; it will also reduce the 'C' factor (= max. power going in or out of the battery as a product of the capacity of the battery). A larger battery can provide more instantanious power and can be charged at a higher rate. See exhibit A: Tesla.

Boxbrownie
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Location: Pastyland, UK

Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:42 am

psquare wrote:
Boxbrownie wrote:With the new 30Kwh Leaf they are talking about 150 mile range, I reckon the i3 would have to come very close to this to retain the "ultimate charging machine" label ;)
These people claim to have test-driven one:
The new Leaf 30kWh will reach around 130 miles under normal driving conditions though, and that is without trying particularly hard.

http://www.nextgreencar.com/review/7300 ... wh-review/

This is great progress, but unfortunately there's no Moore's Law for batteries.

You missed off the last line of that part

" What that equates to is a real-world range in excess of the previous model's quoted figure, which is rather impressive."

;)
Best regards........David

If anything in my post offends you please let me know, I may wish to offend you again. ;)

psquare
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Re: BMW i talks about larger EV, increased i3 range in 2016

Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:46 am

Boxbrownie wrote: " What that equates to is a real-world range in excess of the previous model's quoted figure, which is rather impressive."
;)
You're right. 30 more miles. Wow.

:)

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