More dealer and charging support!

[htownmark]

I have had my BMW i3 for a week now, and there is very little I find wrong with it. Best car I have ever owned.

There are a few minor, goofy issues, like the remote button for the frunk (why?), and some of the tech is not as user friendly as it could be - for instance why are some apps only accessible vis Connected Drive, which requires plugging in? Why can't I access Pandora or Life 360 via bluetooth? I feel like the interface offers a lot, but takes a lot of figuring out. Why are there multiple interface apps? Shoud just be one, and all accessible via bluetooth or 3G.

The suicide doors can be complicated when my kids pile in and out of the car, but at the same time, it is more convenient when I am throwing something in the back seat (which happens more often). So I call that a wash. I don't think I would prefer conventional doors.

My biggest gripe is the lack of serious marketing and charging support, as well as training of dealerships.

- My salesperson was pretty knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the i3, but there were people at the dealership who seemed utterly clueless about what an amazing car they had on their hands. They treat in like an oddity that they are not all that interested in selling. This contrasts strongly with the cultish Tesla approach to selling their cars, and I think the BMW i3 is every bit as amazing as the Tesla, in its own way. A real shame. I think BMW should require dealers who want to sell the i3 to establish dedicated i3 showrooms and prove their ability to support the sub brand.

- There are only two level 2 chargers at my dealership. The Nissan dealerships have a DC charger for their leafs. None of the BMW dealerships have DC chargers, even though BMW purportedly worked up a cheap DC charger for just this reasons.

- There are no DC combo chargers ANYWHERE in Houston. This makes me nuts, since NRG is a Houston company, and they have started building them in California. I still got the DC charge option, because I think it will happen eventually, but I think BMW could be way more aggressive in pursuing partnerships and installing DC chargers. If BMW and the other DC Combo EV manufacturers are going to start a standards war, then they need to really go to war, and make it a viable standard. I see little evidence of this yet.

- There was talk of a loaner program for long trips. Apparently this got nixed, because there is no way the BMW dealers have enough loaners for this. Don't promise stuff you can't deliver on, BMW.

So, in short, I love, love, love this car. But I want EVs to become even more popular and ubiquitous, so I can find charging station support wherever I go. I feel like BMW has neglected this part of the equation. It makes no sense for the company to kill itself building the car in a sustainable, with low-carbon footprint, and then neglect the user and sales side of the equation. What would it cost BMW to put one DC charger in every Houston dealership? 50 grand? This is nothing for a company the size of BMW, yet it would be really great for the BMW i driver base, and it would make a statement, that they are fully invested, as much as Tesla and Nissan.

 

[mindmachine]

I have had my BMW i3 for a week now, and there is very little I find wrong with it. Best car I have ever owned.

There are a few minor, goofy issues, like the remote button for the frunk (why?), and some of the tech is not as user friendly as it could be - for instance why are some apps only accessible vis Connected Drive, which requires plugging in? Why can't I access Pandora or Life 360 via bluetooth? I feel like the interface offers a lot, but takes a lot of figuring out. Why are there multiple interface apps? Shoud just be one, and all accessible via bluetooth or 3G.

The suicide doors can be complicated when my kids pile in and out of the car, but at the same time, it is more convenient when I am throwing something in the back seat (which happens more often). So I call that a wash. I don't think I would prefer conventional doors.

My biggest gripe is the lack of serious marketing and charging support, as well as training of dealerships.

- My salesperson was pretty knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the i3, but there were people at the dealership who seemed utterly clueless about what an amazing car they had on their hands. They treat in like an oddity that they are not all that interested in selling. This contrasts strongly with the cultish Tesla approach to selling their cars, and I think the BMW i3 is every bit as amazing as the Tesla, in its own way. A real shame. I think BMW should require dealers who want to sell the i3 to establish dedicated i3 showrooms and prove their ability to support the sub brand.

- There are only two level 2 chargers at my dealership. The Nissan dealerships have a DC charger for their leafs. None of the BMW dealerships have DC chargers, even though BMW purportedly worked up a cheap DC charger for just this reasons.

- There are no DC combo chargers ANYWHERE in Houston. This makes me nuts, since NRG is a Houston company, and they have started building them in California. I still got the DC charge option, because I think it will happen eventually, but I think BMW could be way more aggressive in pursuing partnerships and installing DC chargers. If BMW and the other DC Combo EV manufacturers are going to start a standards war, then they need to really go to war, and make it a viable standard. I see little evidence of this yet.

- There was talk of a loaner program for long trips. Apparently this got nixed, because there is no way the BMW dealers have enough loaners for this. Don't promise stuff you can't deliver on, BMW.

So, in short, I love, love, love this car. But I want EVs to become even more popular and ubiquitous, so I can find charging station support wherever I go. I feel like BMW has neglected this part of the equation. It makes no sense for the company to kill itself building the car in a sustainable, with low-carbon footprint, and then neglect the user and sales side of the equation. What would it cost BMW to put one DC charger in every Houston dealership? 50 grand? This is nothing for a company the size of BMW, yet it would be really great for the BMW i driver base, and it would make a statement, that they are fully invested, as much as Tesla and Nissan.

I was told by my BMW dealer that by the end of this year, BMW has mandated that all their dealers must install 2 DC Fast chargers in every dealership.

 

[mark1]

- My salesperson was pretty knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the i3, but there were people at the dealership who seemed utterly clueless about what an amazing car they had on their hands. They treat in like an oddity that they are not all that interested in selling. This contrasts strongly with the cultish Tesla approach to selling their cars, and I think the BMW i3 is every bit as amazing as the Tesla, in its own way. A real shame. I think BMW should require dealers who want to sell the i3 to establish dedicated i3 showrooms and prove their ability to support the sub brand.

Interesting, here in the UK, there are over 150 BMW dealers, and only 46 are "i" accredited. They have a separate showroom area and at least one BMW "i" Genius who has undergone additional training.

 

[stumbledotcom]

You might want to consider that we’re very early in the adoption curve for CCS fast charging. The i3 and Spark EV, the first two US-market vehicles that use the standard, have been available for just a few months. BMW only announced its lower priced DC fast charge station and partnership with NRG eVgo at the end of July. NRG managers have told me that they will have three plugs (J1772 L2, Chamedo and CCS) at all their California Freedom stations eventually. The hold up for CCS rollout being a hardware shortage.

In comparison, Nissan has been building its network since 2010; Tesla since 2012. It seems likely CCS will catch up as more manufacturers introduce cars that use the standard and production of station hardware ramps up. There also have been reports of BMW and Tesla discussing some sort of cooperation.

As to NRG’s concentration on California, it’s a legal obligation. They agreed to spend $120 million on public ZEV infrastructure and rate relief to settle a suit stemming from their manipulation of the electricity market in the early 2000’s.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/201...fund-electric-car-charging-stations-acro.html

 

[stumbledotcom]

Interesting, here in the UK, there are over 150 BMW dealers, and only 46 are "i" accredited. They have a separate showroom area and at least one BMW "i" Genius who has undergone additional training.

It's been discussed here before but the US market functions differently because our most populous states have strong dealer franchise laws. As a result, US dealers operate with greater autonomy. BMW NA may set standards for training and facilities but the factory wholesales the vehicles to the dealers who can run their businesses as they see fit. Unlike the UK and other European markets where BMW AG retains ownership and control of the vehicles until transferred to individual purchasers. In other words, your dealers are paid by Munich to handle the transaction so the factory has more control of the process and standards.

 

[WoodlandHills]

- My salesperson was pretty knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the i3, but there were people at the dealership who seemed utterly clueless about what an amazing car they had on their hands. They treat in like an oddity that they are not all that interested in selling. This contrasts strongly with the cultish Tesla approach to selling their cars, and I think the BMW i3 is every bit as amazing as the Tesla, in its own way. A real shame. I think BMW should require dealers who want to sell the i3 to establish dedicated i3 showrooms and prove their ability to support the sub brand.

Interesting, here in the UK, there are over 150 BMW dealers, and only 46 are "i" accredited. They have a separate showroom area and at least one BMW "i" Genius who has undergone additional training.

Here in Los Angeles things are not that different. Not every dealer carries the i-series, but those that do also have the i-Genius specialist. None of them have separate facilities, but they are beginning to install special display islands in the showrooms for the i3 and i8. They seem to be using the eucalyptus wood from the interior as a design theme. I strongly feel that these cars will be sold from unique freestanding locations in a few years, probably making the change around the time the next EV platform is released (i5). With i3 coupes and sedans as well as an i5 sedan and other variants they will need to do something. As long as the EVs will still count towards the CAFE requirements there is no reason not to do so.

 

[htownmark]

I understand that the dealer network is different from Tesla's distribution system, and I also understand that it is early in the roll out.

But BMW is a massive and profitable company. They sell well over 100K vehicles worldwide per month. There are not even that many total Teslas in existence, since they started making cars in 2009. I doubt they have built half that number. Yet Tesla, despite its much smaller size and pockets, has built out an extensive charging station system - if I want to drive from Houston to Austin, I can stop in the 2 stoplight town of Columbus and fast-charge my car.

But BMW has not gotten around to putting a 6 thousand dollar fast charger in even one dealership in Houston, after 5 months of i3 sales? I just think that is unacceptable. And while they cannot force dealerships to do it, I bet they can incentivize them pretty easily, if they really wanted to. They are independent, but they can be coaxed. How about cash to help with the build-outs, and priority access to i8s and i3s?

I think it will happen, but I also think there should be timetable communicated to current and prospective owners. It would give BMW that much more of an edge in the market place, and make it much easier to own and operate our cars, and plan for future use and trips.

I think BMW has done a fantastic job designing and manufacturing the i cars, but I still think there is a lot to be desired in terms of marketing, dealer training and charging infrastructure support.

But I am glad to hear the news about all dealers being required to have DC chargers by end of the year. If that is true, then salespeople should know that. My salesperson was clueless when I asked him when it would happen.

 

[LivingBetterThurEV]

Part of the issue is BMW NA regional management not communicating very well with the independent dealers. One of the dealers pulled out a 1 inch thick stack of hardcopy documents from BMW NA to the dealerships. They had a hard time deciphering conflicting document information. My dealer had to make several calls back to BMW NA and regional manager to just to clarify what they had to do. Only after I made copies of some BMW NA documents and handed them to the dealer, was the dealer able to find it. (makes you wonder where truth lies)

BMW NA is not BMW AG but a separate company allowed to purchase and sell BMW's in NA.

A few dealers have the special i3 display, where large panels let customers look, touch and feel the exterior/interior options. My dealer was not going install the display until next year. Area dealers not installing external customer use chargers is just stupid of them.

I don't think business as a whole catch on to why you want to install a charger at their business. The good retail stores should realize that they can get their customers to stay longer and shop at their store verses elsewhere if they place chargers in their parking lots. Most store owners that I have talked too stated "never really thought about installing a charger - but like the idea of getting customers to stay in their stores longer". There is an overall education needed for retail business owners and local municipalities. Of course there is the chicken and egg issue hoping for "if you build and they will come".

We have local charging stations at the recreation center and the library. But DC Fast chargers (level 3 and level 2) should be all along the thruways stops (like in the UK) - and would go a long way in encouraging EV usage in the Northeast. Political lip service and bragging has been useless in getting chargers installed on our commute routes.

 

[stillageek]

I live in the Dallas, TX area and expect to see no SAE Combo chargers until 2016. Why?

Well I'm in oil burning SUV driving Texas. I was shocked there are electric vehicle rebates in Texas. I live in a 2 EV household. We have a 2013 Leaf and a 2014 I3. There is much more support for the Leaf, but it still isn't great.

We went in wanting to lease the Leaf. More than once we were swayed towards a regular ICE vehicle. Many Nissan dealers don't even keep the Leaf out front or accessible for buyers to see.

EV adoption in Texas is very, very, very slow. There's little reason for NRG to invest big in SAE Combo chargers until there is an installed base or hint that there will be.

California is getting the first wave as there are major incentives to drive an EV. Many in California buy EVs JUST to get HOV lane access.

Getting SAE Combo chargers at BMW dealers is just a start to show off the technology. Houston is a huge city (I was born and raised there). It will take a few thousand CCS/SAE Combo equipped vehicles on the road to have more than a token few SAE Combo chargers.

I hope there will be a time when the state of Texas will install DC fast chargers on I45, i35 and I10 near rest stops for drivers to use.

 

[WoodlandHills]

There is a conflict built into the charger at the store model: it stinks for long distance travel. You have to leave the highway, drive several miles to the mall and then compete for a plug with local shoppers with a 90% SOC and range anxiety. Tesla has their network out on the highway at the off ramp like a gas station where you need it.

I can understand the reluctance of a store or center manager to,install a bunch of chargers that will only be used for a few years until the public gets used to their EVs. If you are comfortable with your EV and there are fast chargers at local gas stations why bother to plug-in at the store in the middle of doing errands? It would be like stopping for a liter of gasoline 3 or 4 times a day..... No sane person would do that, they would just leave home in the morning with a full charge.

These are early days of EVs and no one really knows what the eventual infrastructure will look like. IMHO, putting fast chargers in current gas stations will be the best model.

 

[WoodlandHills]

I live in the Dallas, TX area and expect to see no SAE Combo chargers until 2016. Why?

Well I'm in oil burning SUV driving Texas. I was shocked there are electric vehicle rebates in Texas. I live in a 2 EV household. We have a 2013 Leaf and a 2014 I3. There is much more support for the Leaf, but it still isn't great.

We went in wanting to lease the Leaf. More than once we were swayed towards a regular ICE vehicle. Many Nissan dealers don't even keep the Leaf out front or accessible for buyers to see.

EV adoption in Texas is very, very, very slow. There's little reason for NRG to invest big in SAE Combo chargers until there is an installed base or hint that there will be.
. There is little reason for NRG to invest in California either. There are only doing it as a settlement for their criminal activity in manipulating the states energy market. Remember those swell folks at Enron?

California is getting the first wave as there are major incentives to drive an EV. Many in California buy EVs JUST to get HOV lane access.

Getting SAE Combo chargers at BMW dealers is just a start to show off the technology. Houston is a huge city (I was born and raised there). It will take a few thousand CCS/SAE Combo equipped vehicles on the road to have more than a token few SAE Combo chargers.

I hope there will be a time when the state of Texas will install DC fast chargers on I45, i35 and I10 near rest stops for drivers to use.

 

[jadnashuanh]

The lower-cost DC chargers that were announced by BMW are about 1/2 the power that the i3 can handle, and thus, you won't get the 80% charge in 20-minutes. Why? To get people to buy them, the lower power levels mean that there is a smaller chance that the establishment won't have to order in new, higher capacity power, and, they cost less. Personally, I think this is somewhat of a mistake, as people think DC fast charge, they think what BMW advertises, not half power as is in the one the dealers are likely to put in and endorsed by BMW, at least in the USA. Just like a 16A EVSE won't charge the i3 as fast as a 32A one, neither will a 1/2-power DC fast charger.

 

[TonyWilliams]

- There are no DC combo chargers ANYWHERE in Houston. This makes me nuts, since NRG is a Houston company, and they have started building them in California. I still got the DC charge option, because I think it will happen eventually, but I think BMW could be way more aggressive in pursuing partnerships and installing DC chargers. If BMW and the other DC Combo EV manufacturers are going to start a standards war, then they need to really go to war, and make it a viable standard. I see little evidence of this yet.

NRG is installing them because they agreed to. No such deal exists for Texas, or anywhere outside of California:


NRG/EVgo Deal with the state of California

https://www.evgonetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/NRG-Leave-Behind-1-EV-Infrastructure-Agreement-4-27-12-FINAL.pdf

Initially all Freedom Stations shall have one
(1) or more DC Fast Chargers compatible with the CHAdeMo
Standard and one (1) Level 2 Charger compatible with the SAE
Standard. Upon the occurrence of (A) approval by SAE for a
charger standard for DC Fast Chargers and (B) the commercial
availability from at least two (2) unaffiliated manufacturers of one
or more DC Fast Chargers that are SAE Standard compatible or
equipment capable of making the Freedom Stations’ DC Fast
Chargers compatible with both the SAE Standard and the
CHAdeMo Standard (and in each case that are approved by the
Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories), then NRG shall have
six (6) months to complete the modification of all installed
Freedom Stations to include at least one (1) SAE Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger and one (1) CHAdeMo Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger or one (1) CHAdeMo+SAE DC
Charger. Thereafter, all newly installed Freedom Stations will
have at least one (1) DC Fast Charger that is SAE Standard
compatible.

 

[Boatguy]

- There are no DC combo chargers ANYWHERE in Houston. This makes me nuts, since NRG is a Houston company, and they have started building them in California. I still got the DC charge option, because I think it will happen eventually, but I think BMW could be way more aggressive in pursuing partnerships and installing DC chargers. If BMW and the other DC Combo EV manufacturers are going to start a standards war, then they need to really go to war, and make it a viable standard. I see little evidence of this yet.

NRG is installing them because they agreed to. No such deal exists for Texas, or anywhere outside of California:


NRG/EVgo Deal with the state of California

https://www.evgonetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/NRG-Leave-Behind-1-EV-Infrastructure-Agreement-4-27-12-FINAL.pdf

Initially all Freedom Stations shall have one
(1) or more DC Fast Chargers compatible with the CHAdeMo
Standard and one (1) Level 2 Charger compatible with the SAE
Standard. Upon the occurrence of (A) approval by SAE for a
charger standard for DC Fast Chargers and (B) the commercial
availability from at least two (2) unaffiliated manufacturers of one
or more DC Fast Chargers that are SAE Standard compatible or
equipment capable of making the Freedom Stations’ DC Fast
Chargers compatible with both the SAE Standard and the
CHAdeMo Standard (and in each case that are approved by the
Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories), then NRG shall have
six (6) months to complete the modification of all installed
Freedom Stations to include at least one (1) SAE Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger and one (1) CHAdeMo Standard
compatible DC Fast Charger or one (1) CHAdeMo+SAE DC
Charger. Thereafter, all newly installed Freedom Stations will
have at least one (1) DC Fast Charger that is SAE Standard
compatible.

As of today this is nothing more than a press release. There is exactly one NRG DC Fast Charger in Northern California. BMW keeps saying (as recently as two weeks ago when I spoke to them) that announcements and chargers are coming, but thus far they are officially silent and the chargers don't exist. To my knowledge not a single new DC Fast Charger has been installed since this press release. I hope someone will show me I'm mistaken.