Tesla is burning money, BMW is making money

[i3marc]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/insight-tesla-burns-cash-loses-more-4-000-110535099--finance.html

vs.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/1501_is_bmw_i3_profitable.html

By now and with more than 30k units sold, and more surprisingly more than 4k i8's, BMW has a net payback on their disruptive venture.

Even the lame reverse engineering of the car in plain sight doesn't expose it to being cloned easily (have fun trying to mass produce carbon fiber all the intellectual property thieves! ) and the BMW brand name makes it perfectly priced.

More importantly all those new technologies are trickling down the product line and BMW made a pledge to get rid of the black goomp from the ground buring engine within 10 years.

Electric cars are just superior and mechanically more simple, and even if gasoline was $1 a gallon they would absolutely make sense on their superior acceleration and handling alone.

Flashback to detractors that show how much the sheeples are manipulated in something as unnatural as burning a product better suited for plastics and medecine and countless other applications than simply being used to displace a cylinder inside a tight tube at the cost of massive vibration, noise and pollution:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2011/09/14/electric-cars-are-an-extraordinarily-bad-idea/2/

Remember gasoline burning/diesel burning cars reduce our live's expectancy by as much as 6 years in cities due to smog and countless respiratory illness.

 

[jelloslug]

There is a huge difference between what Tesla is doing vs what BMW is doing.

 

[imolazhp]

I'm not really sure what the point of your post is.

I'm no Tesla fanatic but I sure hope they do well, don't we want all EV manufacturers to do well? Its not a competition, everyone driving an EV is a winner.

 

[psquare]

I'm no Tesla fanatic but I sure hope they do well, don't we want all EV manufacturers to do well? Its not a competition, everyone driving an EV is a winner.

I couldn't have said it better. Unfortunately, all EV forums I've visited before and after the purchase of my i3 are divided - even within model variations (see some of the REx/BEV discourses on this forum if you don't believe me). But I guess cars are mostly about emotions and forums such as this reflect that.

 

[Boatguy]

I suspect the i3 is a loss leader for BMW and essentially an expanded "beta" program like the prior Mini and 3-series Electronaut vehicles.

My i3 BEV, which has not had any of the major problems that some owners report has none the less already spent 8 days at the dealer in my first year of ownership, none of it for scheduled maintenance. That adds up to a lot of expense for BMW and income for the dealer.

I also wish Tesla a lot of success. In a perfect world they would have raised another $5B and have 3-5 cars in the product line by next year, but they haven't done that and the limited lineup is giving the competition time to catch up and putting pressure on their operations. The Model S is going to need a refresh very soon which will probably delay the Model 3.

In any case, it would be bad for everyone who wants to see electric cars succeed if Tesla were to fail.

 

[epirali]

I suspect the i3 is a loss leader for BMW and essentially an expanded "beta" program like the prior Mini and 3-series Electronaut vehicles.

My i3 BEV, which has not had any of the major problems that some owners report has none the less already spent 8 days at the dealer in my first year of ownership, none of it for scheduled maintenance. That adds up to a lot of expense for BMW and income for the dealer.

I also wish Tesla a lot of success. In a perfect world they would have raised another $5B and have 3-5 cars in the product line by next year, but they haven't done that and the limited lineup is giving the competition time to catch up and putting pressure on their operations. The Model S is going to need a refresh very soon which will probably delay the Model 3.

In any case, it would be bad for everyone who wants to see electric cars succeed if Tesla were to fail.

+1

I just would expand to not understanding why ANYONE wants any BEV/PHEV/FCEV attempt to fail, as it would discourage further development. In my book every successful attempt at BEV/FCEV is another set of hopefully converted ICE drivers.

 

[Mg012]

Tesla is building out its supercharging network (125kwh per stall) throughout the world, which is free to owners for the life of the car. They have 500 so far and expect to add a couple hundred per year. That is a huge investment in the future. BMW has associated with Chargepoint to make it easier for us to pay for 7kwh chargers everywhere and a handful of Fast DC chargers ( up to 40kwh) in some big cities.

I love my new i3 but it's very different from Tesla where they have only EV products. At my BMW dealership I have to ask the Genius questions and he googles the answers.

 

[stumbledotcom]

I suspect the i3 is a loss leader for BMW and essentially an expanded "beta" program like the prior Mini and 3-series Electronaut vehicles.

Munro & Associates, the third-party reverse engineering and cost analysis experts referenced in the OP's second link, disagree with you. Munro has stated over and over that by his calculations the i3 program is profitable at 20K units per year. Here's another instance from Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmu...secrets-of-bmws-remarkable-car-of-the-future/

And July brought news that BMW has exceeded that 20K per year sales rate.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/10/worldwide-sales-of-bmw-i3-and-i8-exceed-30000-units-in-2015/

Most people focus on the i3's electric drive system. In reality, its radical design and innovative construction hold more promise for the future.

 

[stumbledotcom]

Tesla is building out its supercharging network (125kwh per stall) throughout the world, which is free to owners for the life of the car.

Don't kid yourself. Supercharging is not free. Model S drivers pay for it upfront in the vehicle's purchase price rather than per use. In fact, supercharging was an extra-cost option on the recently-discontinued 60kWh Model S. And Tesla has begun sending out letters to discourage Model S drivers from using its Supercharger network too often.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/19/tesla-superchargers-letter/

 

[Mg012]

Tesla is building out its supercharging network (125kwh per stall) throughout the world, which is free to owners for the life of the car.

Don't kid yourself. Supercharging is not free. Model S drivers pay for it upfront in the vehicle's purchase price rather than per use. In fact, supercharging was an extra-cost option on the recently-discontinued 60kWh Model S. And Tesla has begun sending out letters to discourage Model S drivers from using its Supercharger network too often.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/19/tesla-superchargers-letter/

Yes, of course we have paid some amount per car up front to pay for supercharging. The cars are expensive. At least it is getting done. I have only used one when I needed it and it is very cool to get 150 miles in 20 minutes.
I looked on the Charge Now map for any DC Fast Charge sites near San Antonio. There is only one about 70 freeway miles away. I wonder if I could make it there?

 

[I33t]

Lol. Poor Tesla.

Seems they have attracted some folk who think they will never have to pay to charge their car.

Understandable, I guess. It was advertised as a free charging service for the Model S.

 

[Boatguy]

I suspect the i3 is a loss leader for BMW and essentially an expanded "beta" program like the prior Mini and 3-series Electronaut vehicles.

Munro & Associates, the third-party reverse engineering and cost analysis experts referenced in the OP's second link, disagree with you. Munro has stated over and over that by his calculations the i3 program is profitable at 20K units per year. Here's another instance from Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmu...secrets-of-bmws-remarkable-car-of-the-future/

And July brought news that BMW has exceeded that 20K per year sales rate.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/10/worldwide-sales-of-bmw-i3-and-i8-exceed-30000-units-in-2015/

Most people focus on the i3's electric drive system. In reality, its radical design and innovative construction hold more promise for the future.

Reverse engineering can project the breakeven for build cost, but only BMW knows the cost of the after sale service costs. I'm suggesting that if my car has been in the shop for now 12 days in the first year, BMW is writing checks to the dealer that Munro et all can't possibly forecast or understand. This is real world, nobody knew what would break, cost.

What we do know, is that for a given service problem, BMW pays more than Tesla because BMW must include some profit for the dealer in each fix, whereas Telsa only absorbs the actual cost to fix. It's a business model difference, not a product quality issue.

In any case, I wish them both enormous success and look forward to the demise of ICE.