US i3 Rex dangerous when climbing hills

[MikeS]

I tested the REX and BEV over the routes I generally take to ensure it did what I wanted. I would have thought that a reasonable test to take. In fact if you know your expected routes have some stiff climbs I think I would have been even more careful to test its capability.

 

[jadnashuanh]

There's a reason why the US has more than its fair share of lawyers...people don't like to read and use common sense, then expect to recover from the manufacturer because they bought the wrong tool for the job or failed to read and understand the supplied manual and experienced a 'problem'. And, I'm very sorry to say, and recent studies have reconfirmed this, the US is falling even further behind the level of education from the rest of the industrialized world - just look at our science and math scores compared to most other parts of the world...we should be ashamed!

There's a fair number of jobs out there, but not enough people to fill them with the needed skills.

 

[kevinb61]

I tested the REX and BEV over the routes I generally take to ensure it did what I wanted. I would have thought that a reasonable test to take. In fact if you know your expected routes have some stiff climbs I think I would have been even more careful to test its capability.

+1

 

[RJBarry]

There's a reason why the US has more than its fair share of lawyers...people don't like to read and use common sense, then expect to recover from the manufacturer because they bought the wrong tool for the job or failed to read and understand the supplied manual and experienced a 'problem'. And, I'm very sorry to say, and recent studies have reconfirmed this, the US is falling even further behind the level of education from the rest of the industrialized world - just look at our science and math scores compared to most other parts of the world...we should be ashamed!

There's a fair number of jobs out there, but not enough people to fill them with the needed skills.

Hope you are glad you got that off your chest. While your post is offensive (insinuating that I can't read nor have common sense, etc), it isn't really relevant to the conversation. I bought my Rex perfectly aware of the situation. That doesn't mean that the situation doesn't suck and that BMW couldn't/shouldn't do something about it.

 

[GeorgeJ]

I have been reading this forum for several months along with every other site on the web I think. I just joined and made my first post on the new member site. This thread addresses my primary concerns and will reiterate a portion what I said on my intro.

I drove the i3 at the first local test event and I was truly impressed with how it drove, the cool interior, it's compact proportions (I live in San Francisco), and the impressive technology and design. I want to make it work, but . . . .

I just can't get my arms around the range issue. 98 to 99% of the time I would be well within the battery range. That said I have a few weekends where I drive over 150 miles without an opportunity to plug in. I could take my wife's 328i wagon though most of those times I leave she would be heading off a similar distance.

They hooked me with the world version rex and then gave us the hobbled USA version. It truly makes me mad because they really captured my passion. I could tolerate the work-a rounds associated with occasional travel if I had control over the rex motor (the slightly more usable gas tank would be a plus) that everyone else gets. That said I don't think the current setup will get me safely (and sanely) to and from my destinations on these periodic weekends.

Even with the reduced tank if one could start the rex early in a trip and (inconveniently) refill when the tank was low you could maintain an electric buffer. I have no need for an HOV sticker, just give us a third option, the world market rex. I'll lease it the day it arrives here.

__________________
1975 2002 Inka/blk, 1975 2002 Red/blk (lthr) (owned '77-'79), 1976 2002 blue/tan (lthr) (owned '80-'81), 1979 M1 Orange/blk (owned '82-'84), 1980 320iS Silver/blk, 1984 323i Drk blue/cream(European) E30, 1996 M3 White/blk E36, 1998 328i Silver/blk E46, 2002 330i Silver/blk E46, 2006 330i Silver/blk E90, 2008 335iSilver/blk E90, 2012 135i SGM/blk E82 (all with manual gearboxes)

 

[jfox]

I did zero homework on this car. I saw it one day and traded in my 08 X5 4.4i four days later. I didn't need 3 SUVs anyways and since I already have solar panels figured what the hell. I drive 20K miles per year and was ready to go electric but wanted something cool (but didnt have $100K to drop on a legit Tesla). The Prius seems kinda boring/gutless, the Volt seemed to lack the style I was looking for and so did the Leaf. I had no idea BMW was even making an electric car and never heard of this subculture of electronauts.

So here I am 3 weeks and 1000miles into this i3 and have only dipped into the REX part so haven't experienced any of the negative stuff you are all whining about. I gotta say the car has been amazingly responsive jamming up hills at 80mph and I go 90mph on the freeway here in SoCal when "appropriate". This car is super fun to drive! But If I had done my "homework" and skimmed these posts, it would have freaked me out, especially the part about limiting my MPH to less than 80.

In the end it really all boils down to range. If you can keep your daily range less than 80 miles, you have nothing to worry about. Its not for long trips, its really not designed to use the REX. That is only a safety "emergency" supply that you should never rely on. If you want range, pony up the 100K and get the Tesla.

separate note: any one know of an adaptor from ChadeMo to SAE-Combo to get DC charging? Seems like alls it needs is a female to female kinda thing

i3 REX - TeraWorld

 

[Chrisn]

No such adapter-- it's not just bout the electrical, there is a whole comm protocol issue as well.

If you drive as claimed (which is how I drive), don't count on more than 65 miles of EV range.

All agree that the EV driving experience is awesome. Just a couple of edge cases that can bite you on the REX side. These edge cases are dealt with by the original design features, but were crippled in the us for reasons unrelated to safety or utility.

 

[ultraturtle]

If you want range, pony up the 100K and get the Tesla.

Uh. no.

If you want range, pony up the $3.8K and get the REx for a lot more range than the Tesla Model S can possibly offer. Read up on this forum and others and you will note that the odd case of folks pushing the vehicle beyond its design limits either to make a point or due to lack of information are few and far between. The vast majority of us have been able to maintain a reasonable average speed of 75 mph or so over rolling terrain, and 55 mph or more up grades that exceed several miles on REx power alone without issue.

The i3 REx is 31% more efficient operating on electricity than the Tesla Model S 85kWh. It can travel between any two points in North America about as quickly as an ICE vehicle, whereas the Tesla Model not only is incapable of that feat, but takes far longer to travel between any two points of which it is capable.

The Tesla Model S is an incredible car, but has limitations. It might function well as my second car, but could never be my only car. The BMW i3 could.

I was seriously considering the Tesla Model X as my next car, but it would take almost 4 hours longer to get to my frequent beach destination than the i3 REx currently can manage in 5 hours (and use more than double the energy), so it would most likely see little use.

 

[nostatic]

I'm still not convinced about ditching my ICE but would love to be turned. We are in the honeymoon phase with the i3 (wife's car), and I'm seriously considering swapping out my X1 lease and getting into a second i3 - but I don't see how it would do 300 mile days without either luck/planning (and having time to kill) or stopping every 50 miles to fill up towards the end. While perhaps edge cases, it certainly does make one rethink longer distance travel but that is part of the gestalt. Part of the problem is being spoiled by instant gratification in travel - well, as much as that is possible in LA traffic. But just filling up the gas tank and driving until empty, then refilling is a different mindset that needs to be changed. Perhaps electroshock therapy might help (pun intended).

 

[fdl1409]

For a 300 mile trip, you can easily drive the first 150+ miles with battery charge and fuel tank. So at most you have to refill at 150, 200 and 250 miles to reach your destination - if you drive carefully maybe only twice. You wouln`t think bad about one refill with an ICE, and maybe one more to take a leak. So it is an extra one or two stops. Unless you do that every week or more I don´t see a problem here.
I would have a 5-10 liter canister in my trunk for such journeys, just in case.

Frank

 

[Chrisn]

The problem with REX refills on long trips is that such trips will often be between cities where fuel stations can be 5+ miles apart. And their positions do not depend on your fuel level. So to have any safety margin at all, you need to seek gas when you get under 10 miles of range.

Apart from the novelty of proving it can be done, I can't imagine anyone planning to use the i3 regularly for trips requiring two or more refills. IMHO, even a four gallon tank would tilt the calculus the other way and make it a full ICE replacement (like the Volt).

 

[RJSATLBA]

Don't forget the fundamental difference between NA and Europe specs. We are fortunate to be able to force the REx on early, use the whole tank and use electric to the next pump, refill and repeat. Better still if there's a rapid charge we can top up that too and make it a coffee break.

 

[Chrisn]

Don't forget the fundamental difference between NA and Europe specs. We are fortunate to be able to force the REx on early, use the whole tank and use electric to the next pump, refill and repeat. Better still if there's a rapid charge we can top up that too and make it a coffee break.

Had to rub it in, huh?

 

[jadnashuanh]

But, my point is, on a long trip, if you do not stop to recharge the batteries, REx or not, you'll eventually run into the same problem...a nearly dead battery, and if you started your REx early like you can in some places, maybe no gasoline either!

It is what it is...if you don't like it or can't live with it, the i3 in neither variation, is a good car for you. WIll the newer ones be different? Very probably, but until then...the saga continues.

 

[RJSATLBA]

It wasn't intended that way.

 

[TMSsilent]

A road near my house ascends 6500 vertical feet (1981m) in 21 miles (33.7 Km), with no level or downhill sections. It goes up, up, up. No downhill sections where the ReX can get some "breathing room" to charge the batteries. As an experiment I drove it today, leaving my house with very little charge remaining.

Once the ReX came on it was only a few miles before the battery charge went from 6% to zero. Once the charge went to zero I was only able to maintain about 29 mph on a 4% grade. On an 18% grade my top speed was 9 mph, foot flat on the floor. I was alone in the car, I weigh 220 lbs (100 kilos), with no cargo.

There are some very clever charts earlier in this thread which predict top speeds under ReX-only power on various grades. My experience show those charts to be very optimistic.

On the good news side, when I arrived back home from the mountaintop, the SOC had regenerated to about 3/8.

Would be nice if the SOC monitor on the dash had a display more accurate than the 4 blocks. Perhaps a digital display of kWh remaining, or something similar.

 

[9114s]

You should code the car to enable REX at 75%. It is very easy to do. So you get a 130 miles range in comfort mode all the way. If you plan longer trip often this is not the car for you.

I hate these Eco modes, as I find them unsafe as the car does not respond the same way as comfort. Also I am not buying a car at 50k and drive with non AC or Heating or Music at 55MPH....
I Love the i3, my 2nd car is 991-4s (430hp) and I am always debating which one to drive on the morning, but for commute the i3 is better as very relaxing.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Also I am not buying a car at 50k and drive with non AC or Heating or Music at 55MPH....

Yes!! I completely agree. I drive in Eco Pro, but only because I like the way the throttle response feels in daily driving, but the climate control is set to Comfort. I look on the Comfort mode as actually being a Sport mode since, for me, the only change is to the acellerator response.

 

[bryanmsi]

The i3 is clearly designed with ability to user-invoke the REX above SoC levels of 6.5%. That's the default behavior in Europe and a feature the European owners can use as often as they like. Likewise, the extra 0.5 gal fuel tank that Europeans enjoy is exactly the same tank we have in the USA, but BMW uses software to stop pumping fuel from that tank early, leaving 0.5 gal unused. You will literally have the car flatbed towed in the USA with at least 20 miles of range sitting in the tank.

Both changes are reductions in the car's inherent and designed in capabilities and both changes are due to the desire to comply with the BEVx regulations of California CARB rules. All the talk of what the i3 was designed for and what it wasn't designed for need to acknowledge that its the same car in the USA and Europe, but BMW deliberately reduced its abilities - via simple software settings - to fit into a different CARB category. Pure and simple.

Its very easy to see, for example, when looking at the settings via the BMW diagnostic software, that the fuel tank setting has a "_us" value at the end of it. Remove that "_us" value and presto - instantly gained 0.5gal. Did you install a bigger fuel tank? Nope, you just removed the hobbling that BMW added to the standard setting. Same is true for range extender. The value for the menu setting enabling manual control is set to "nicht_activ" but changing it to "rex" makes the menu choice appear in iDrive and now the user has manual control over when REX activates. It is just that simple.

I don't blame BMW for doing this but it sure would have been nice if they made these user controlled settings. That way if a user wants to violate CARB, its on the user and NOT on BMW. Same with Range Extender. All the talk of driving from Sacramento to Tahoe and complex kW calculations and Google Earth maps is way beyond the average driver. And the reality is even if you are a rocket scientist, you won't be making that trip using US settings without reduced performance. But tell the European settings driver to "turn on Rex once battery range hits 74% and then drive to Tahoe, stop once for gas if you need it" is super simple. That one thing transforms the vehicle.

And the crazy thing is that's probably the 1% use case for the i3. Nobody is going to stop plugging in their i3 and drive around on the 2-cyl motorbike engine if they suddenly get control. The other 99% of the time, the i3 will work just as it always has - as a BEV with a small APU for emergencies. I sure wish CARB would show some flexibility here.

I have to believe that anyone in the Sacramento, Bay area, Seattle, SoCal, or Colorado would be much happier finding a "coder" to unlock the real power of their car. With a battery buffer of 50% (or even 25%), just about any mountain trip -WITH full performance-in the USA becomes possible, even with the limited power of the REX.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Based on leaks...BMW is going to tweak the turn-on point of the REx based on the route you select. But, if you don't put in a route, it does not know how far you are intending to go, the terrain, or if it would need to enable this function or not...in lieu of a user input route, you're stuck with the CARB induced limitations unless they can be convinced to change the rules. Isn't it ten states that have adopted the CARB rules...so, it's not just one place.