Cabin pre-heating - possible or not?

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i3cam

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Cambridge UK
Does anyone know the full story on cabin pre-heating on the i3?
In the UK it is tedious defrosting the car after a layer of ice has formed, and to set off only to have it fog up after 100m because the interior is still cold.

It seems to be tied to the heated seats option ("Winter package" at 260 GBP), but is this all that can be warmed? It's not really going to help de-ice the windshield or warm the interior, is it?

Is the "Cold Weather Cabin Preparation" @ 530GBP (heat pump, only for non-REX models) going to allow this?

Does being connected to a charger make any difference?

The dealer was trying to tell me there is some EU reg that bans pre-heating!
 
There is quite a lot of conflicting info on this subject, I've spent a while trying to get to the bottom of it (for the REx) and here are some things I've learnt along the way....

* When the first brochure appeared in August it was noticed that it was not possible to spec the heat pump with the REx. Someone somewhere assumed that this was because the heat pump is installed where the REx is and that you couldn't pre-heat the REx. This 'assumption' is repeated quite a lot on here and elsewhere.

* At the LA auto-show a BMW engineer said that the heat pump is not installed where the REx is. It's actually a small unit in the front of the car.

* At the Frankfurt motor show a member here (Parker) asked BMW about this subject and was told that the REx could pre-heat.

* At the LA auto show Tom reported back on his blog that the REx could pre-heat.

* I've had a conversation with an i-genius who is currently driving a REx and he says he has been pre-heating it in the mornings.

Now..... despite all of that ^^ BMW support on email are currently saying that you can NOT pre-heat with the REx. I've been trying to figure this out with help from another chap who is buying the BEV i3 (because he wants to know if he should order the heat pump) and despite him showing BMW the twitter conversation with the i-genius who says that the REx is pre-heating in the morning they replied to him saying that you can't pre-heat with a REx. I can PM you the email if you're interested in exactly what was said.

At this point I gave up as I've wasted too long on the subject considering it's not a deal-breaker for me. There is no decision to be made about this when spec'ing the REx, so I'll go back to sleep and see what it does when it arrives :)

Sorry that's not much of an answer (probably confused you more than helped) but I'll be interested in this thread to see if anyone does get to the bottom of it.
 
Plug said:
There is quite a lot of conflicting info on this subject, I've spent a while trying to get to the bottom of it (for the REx) and here are some things I've learnt along the way....

* When the first brochure appeared in August it was noticed that it was not possible to spec the heat pump with the REx. Someone somewhere assumed that this was because the heat pump is installed where the REx is and that you couldn't pre-heat the REx. This 'assumption' is repeated quite a lot on here and elsewhere.

* At the LA auto-show a BMW engineer said that the heat pump is not installed where the REx is. It's actually a small unit in the front of the car.

* At the Frankfurt motor show a member here (Parker) asked BMW about this subject and was told that the REx could pre-heat.

* At the LA auto show Tom reported back on his blog that the REx could pre-heat.

* I've had a conversation with an i-genius who is currently driving a REx and he says he has been pre-heating it in the mornings.

Now..... despite all of that ^^ BMW support on email are currently saying that you can NOT pre-heat with the REx. I've been trying to figure this out with help from another chap who is buying the BEV i3 (because he wants to know if he should order the heat pump) and despite him showing BMW the twitter conversation with the i-genius who says that the REx is pre-heating in the morning they replied to him saying that you can't pre-heat with a REx. I can PM you the email if you're interested in exactly what was said.

At this point I gave up as I've wasted too long on the subject considering it's not a deal-breaker for me. There is no decision to be made about this when spec'ing the REx, so I'll go back to sleep and see what it does when it arrives :)

Sorry that's not much of an answer (probably confused you more than helped) but I'll be interested in this thread to see if anyone does get to the bottom of it.
Click to expand...

I don't know if for some reason the UK models are different than the US (Shouldn't be but you never know) but here in the US it doesn't matter if you have a BEV or a REx i3, the cabin pre-heating IS possible. The only caveat and this could be the source of confusion, is that you must order the heated seat option. If you do not get the heated seat's you do not have the cabin pre-heating ability. :oops:

I would be very surprised if that is not the case for the UK also. I am 100% positive that this is the correct information, at least for the US market. I personally talked with Oliver Walter, BMW's top i3 product manager (the i3 is his baby basically) about this for a while. I am disappointed you need to pay for heated heats, as I believe they should be standard on ANY electric car, let along one from a premium brand. Plus pre-conditioning with heat should be a God-given right in an EV. You shouldn't have to buy an option in order to get it! Nonetheless, that's the fact, Jack -er, Plug. :D
 
Thanks Tom. In the UK the heated seats and the heat pump are two separate options

Cold weather cabin preparation £530 (BEV only)
Comprising:
– Heat pump

Winter package £260
Comprises:
– 494 Seat heating, front driver and passenger seats
– ZHV Pre-heating of HV battery with Active air flap control

The current advice (dated a few days ago) from a "BMW i Senior Customer Service Executive" when asked about pre-heating is
This function is only available on the fully electric model with the heat pump that is included in the Cold Weather Preparation pack. Should a customer choose to purchase a BMW i3 with Range Extender (REx), they will be unable to pre-heat their vehicle.
Click to expand...
So, there's stil lots of conflicting info floating about. I don't really know why it has to be this complicated?
 
It seems that part of the confusion is due to the use of the word "pre-heat".
In some brochures and for some salespersons, the word "pre-heat" refers both to cabin pre-conditionning (heat) and to battery pre-heating.

As for the latter (battery cells pre-heating), though the i3 (BEV and REX) has a pretty sophisticated temperature control system for the battery, it seems that battery pre-heating from the plug (ie. remotely controlled through the iRemote app) is only possible if the car is fitted with either the heat pump or the heated seats. Check the price list (hard copy, not website) for your market/country, you should see that "battery pre-heat" is only available with those two options (offered in packages in some cases). If this is the case, and since the heat-pump is not available with the REX version, some salespersons tend to say that "pre-heating is not available with the REX", which is true in a sense. But for me, it just means that you cannot pre-heat the battery cells from the plug in this configuration unless you have the heated seats option.

As for the cabin pre-heat, I guess that the logic is more or less the same : no remotely controlled pre-anything from the plug unless you have the corresponding option.

May I add that all this is just my own personal deduction from what I read and heard. No one has been able to confirm or contradict so far.
 
I see what you're saying agj.

I should probably clarify that the BMW correspondence I've seen has been clear that it's cabin pre-heat and not battery pre-heat that was being discussed. The i-genius was talking about enjoying melting the ice on his windscreen in the mornings and the customer support email quotes "cabin temperature" when explaining that the REx can't pre-heat.
 
Plug said:
I see what you're saying agj.

I should probably clarify that the BMW correspondence I've seen has been clear that it's cabin pre-heat and not battery pre-heat that was being discussed. The i-genius was talking about enjoying melting the ice on his windscreen in the mornings and the customer support email quotes "cabin temperature" when explaining that the REx can't pre-heat.
Click to expand...

Also, here in the States the heat pump is standard on all BEV i3's but it's not available if you get the REx. I see it's an option for you across the pond.
 
TomMoloughney said:
Also, here in the States the heat pump is standard on all BEV i3's but it's not available if you get the REx. I see it's an option for you across the pond.
Click to expand...
I guess most people ordering the BEV in the UK will be spec'ing the heat pump thinking that you need it for cabin pre-heating but my friend's question to BMW was... if the REx can pre-heat without a heat pump then why can't the BEV pre-heat without one (potentially saving him £530).

This did get me wondering if the REx actually has a heat pump as standard (which would also explain why it's not an option) but I've never seen that said anywhere.
 
Someone on another forum is reporting that he's just witnessed the REx being cabin pre-heated at his dealership (and felt the warmth :lol: ).

I'm now 99.9% convinced that the REx can do it, I'm just boggled why BMW support are giving out duff info regarding this ? I wonder if some UK/Euro owners will be annoyed if it turns out you don't need the heat pump to cabin pre-heat with the BEV ?
 
There is a LOT of misinformation about the car unfortunately. I've privately warned BMW about this happening in the past. There are so many things different about this car than anything else they've sold before they really need to develop a better information conduit. I have people reaching out to me from the UK and beyond for i3 information because they can't seem to get straight answers from dealers. I'm disappointed. But it's not too late to right the ship moving forward, hopefully they will.
 
Interesting Tom,

I guess the different markets have different offers - Perhaps bmw can learn from history - Henry Ford was probably right to just offer the Model T black!

Seems USA gets some cool offers using bundled trim options (EU looks like pick and mix and pay a lot more)
 
Perhaps another bit of fog, but today when talking to the i Service Desk here, the advisor told me that BMW has changed the pre-heating package, at least on the BEV. On the European November Options List, the option Pre-Heating Pack (4T9) included Seat Heaters and the Interior Heat Pump. The battery Pre-Heater was standard equipment.

Now, BMW have decided to separate Pack 4T9, where only the Seat Heating is optional and the Heat Pump is now standard equipment, with no additional charge! :D
 
ecoangel said:
Seems USA gets some cool offers using bundled trim options (EU looks like pick and mix and pay a lot more)
Click to expand...


That is typical. US market BMWs have long had fewer options. In part that is because most Americans want to drive a new car home the same day they buy it. In part it is how BMW North America runs their lease returns. They don't want too many oddball cars.

In the US, some options are available but not advertised. Dunno if this is still the case or if there are any "priority one" options on the US i3.

The price difference may not be as large as it seems. US prices are quoted top of sticker before any taxes or fees. UK prices are "on the road" and include all taxes and fees.

UK market combines the HV battery heater and seat heating in a £230 option pack. The heat pump is a separate option. At least that is how it was 4 days ago when we test drove an i3.
 
AndrewDebbie said:
UK market combines the HV battery heater and seat heating in a £230 option pack. The heat pump is a separate option. At least that is how it was 4 days ago when we test drove an i3.
Click to expand...

I probably understood incorrectly what the "old" heat package was, so I stand corrected here!

In any case, BMW have decided to make both Battery and Cabin "Heat" standard and make Seat Heat the only optional choice when ordering the BEV on the European market.
 
i3me said:
Perhaps another bit of fog, but today when talking to the i Service Desk here, the advisor told me that BMW has changed the pre-heating package, at least on the BEV. On the European November Options List, the option Pre-Heating Pack (4T9) included Seat Heaters and the Interior Heat Pump. The battery Pre-Heater was standard equipment.

Now, BMW have decided to separate Pack 4T9, where only the Seat Heating is optional and the Heat Pump is now standard equipment, with no additional charge! :D
Click to expand...

From the i3 price list, It is in dutch (sorry):

4T9 Warmtepomp: deze benut de energie van de omgeving en zorgt bij
lage temperaturen voor meer energie efficiency bij het verwarmen van
het interieur. Hierdoor wordt bij lage temperaturen de afname van de
actieradius van de auto beperkt. (niet leverbaar i.c.m. Range Extender)
672,- 555,- 117,-


494 Stoelverwarming inclusief accuverwarming
De accuverwarming zorgt bij lage temperaturen voor een optimale
bedrijfstemperatuur van de lithium-ion-accu. Als de BMW i3 is
aangesloten op een laadstation zorgt de verwarming voor het optimaal
laden van de accu en wordt de reductie van de actieradius door de lage
buitentemperatuur beperkt. Bovendien wordt de levensduur van de
accu verlengd.
335,- 277,- 58,-



But is says Heatpump not in combination with Rex... and heated seats comes standard with battery heating
 
The Dutch is no problem for me Roger, hopefully our other bloggers can decipher the most important parts of this quote!!

As I stated above and now confirmed by your research, I was incorrect on what I heard regarding the contents of the Heat Package 4T9.
It's clear that package 4T9 is the combination of Heated Seats and Battery Heat. However, I am still convinced that I heard correctly the statement made yesterday by the i Support rep that BMW had decided to separate these 2 options and make the most important one (Battery Heat) standard on all BEV i3's.

Roger, where did you find these detailed descriptions of the optional equipment?
 
Plug said:
Someone on another forum is reporting that he's just witnessed the REx being cabin pre-heated at his dealership (and felt the warmth :lol: ).

I'm now 99.9% convinced that the REx can do it, I'm just boggled why BMW support are giving out duff info regarding this ? I wonder if some UK/Euro owners will be annoyed if it turns out you don't need the heat pump to cabin pre-heat with the BEV ?
Click to expand...

That was me! And I've just been down there again to confirm it, and even take pics of the dealer's Android app showing it in operation. The thread's on Pistonheads, here
 
i3me said:
The Dutch is no problem for me Roger, hopefully our other bloggers can decipher the most important parts of this quote!!

As I stated above and now confirmed by your research, I was incorrect on what I heard regarding the contents of the Heat Package 4T9.
It's clear that package 4T9 is the combination of Heated Seats and Battery Heat. However, I am still convinced that I heard correctly the statement made yesterday by the i Support rep that BMW had decided to separate these 2 options and make the most important one (Battery Heat) standard on all BEV i3's.

Roger, where did you find these detailed descriptions of the optional equipment?
Click to expand...

I just took it from the pricelist PDF on BMW.NL
 
Roger, thanx for the reference!

I have indeed added to the fog above because the Story on Heat Pump, Seat Heaters and pre-heating the cabin is even more complex!

Seat heating and battery heating have BOTH become "standard" for Europe until somewhere in the Winter. BMW finds now that battery heat should be standard equipment. In the November Options List it was part of the Seat Heat package which made it difficult to seperate the two on short notice. So the combination will be installed unasked, gratis on all i3's ordered up to January 1 2014. After that you can order Heated Seats as a solitary option and BMW estimates that those cars will be taken into production in the Winter (or later seeing the long UK wait reported here).

The optional cabin Heat Pump is not required to pre-heat the i3 (BEV or REx). Pre-heating can also be done by the standard heater, albeit less efficiently. On the BEV without the Heat Pump, pre-heating the cabin will only work when the car is attached to a charger, to not excessively drain the battery. So with a BEV, always order the Heat Pump!

Unfortunately, the i3 I'm (finally) getting will not have one! :x
 

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