eNate
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

Arm wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 5:07 pm I never understood why BMW shut down the i3 line. It's phenomenally stupid.

The tooling was there, the design was there, the know-how and experience they gained was there.
I think partly because the design isn't easily scalable.

The new i4 is being built on the same assembly line as their 3-series vehicles, of which they manufacturer 500,000 annually.

They couldn't do that with the i3, and were capped at 40,000 units without major expense and space. It's a great car, it's just not a profitable car to produce – especially when that factory could be retooled to crank out 10x the quantity of something made of steel and aluminum.
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agzand
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

In Europe the outgoing i3 is setting sales records and doing much better than the trio of current BMW BEV models (i4, ix, and ix3).
eNate
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

I searched for and couldn't find any production or sales data for the i4, but regardless of how well the i3 is selling in Europe, their production numbers are effectively capped by materials and design.
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agzand
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

This article has the March numbers:

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/04/28/22 ... ve-a-plug/

Looks like this:

i3: 3,788 (all time record)
iX: 2,088
i4: 1,710
iX3:1,807
eNate
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

Ah but didn't the i4 and iX only debut worldwide in March?

I recall reading that production began in October and they were building up inventories ahead of the launch. That seems like a long lead-up unless they were very slowly ramping production to get all the kinks worked out of the assembly process.
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agzand
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

I think these are Europe stats. None of the other BMW models can replace the i3 as an urban centric model. I think BMW counting on Mini to fill the void left by i3. But the current Mini EV doesn't have the i3 range and practicality.

It looks like BMW EV strategy is in shambles. They don't have a proper EV architecture and trying to compete with haphazard products until they can develop their EV chassis. Even the iX doesn't look like a real EV architecture. I think it is a heavily modified CLAR platform.
Darlouis
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

From what I saw a while ago the i4 is sold out at least through to end of 2022. The lower build numbers is probably due to ramping up manufacturing of the i4 or limited supply of the parts required. New i3's I think are shipping with the old smaller centre screen so there's an issue obtaining the larger screen now.

I don't care too much for the 'must be ground up platform' issue some EV nerds keep raising. While there might be some benefits to doing so, a good well built car is a good car, regardless. I'd personally take an i4 over a ground up EV design Model 3 - I just don't put Tesla quality or predicted long term reliability in the same league. Also, the model 3 platform is getting on a bit.

iX is an awesome car. iX vs Model X, obvious choice.
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agzand
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

Darlouis wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 5:16 am From what I saw a while ago the i4 is sold out at least through to end of 2022. The lower build numbers is probably due to ramping up manufacturing of the i4 or limited supply of the parts required. New i3's I think are shipping with the old smaller centre screen so there's an issue obtaining the larger screen now.

I don't care too much for the 'must be ground up platform' issue some EV nerds keep raising. While there might be some benefits to doing so, a good well built car is a good car, regardless. I'd personally take an i4 over a ground up EV design Model 3 - I just don't put Tesla quality or predicted long term reliability in the same league. Also, the model 3 platform is getting on a bit.

iX is an awesome car. iX vs Model X, obvious choice.
I agree i4 and iX are more desirable than Tesla models, but I would take a Tesla over those models, simply because they have much lower running costs.

The main reason Tesla is so successful is that they make high performance cars that can be driven for years and high mileages at reasonable cost (8 years/100k miles powertrain warranty?) Try to maintain an i4 or iX out of warranty and you will see what I am talking about.
eNate
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

Darlouis wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 5:16 am
...I don't care too much for the 'must be ground up platform' issue some EV nerds keep raising. While there might be some benefits to doing so, a good well built car is a good car, regardless. I'd personally take an i4 over a ground up EV design Model 3...
This bugs me terribly. An ICE car necessarily HAS to be designed around the powerplant, transmission, and gas tank. I hate unnecessarily long hoods on EVs as well as transmission tunnels taking up valuable interior space. Front suspension and steering is a compromise because they have to be designed around a gas engine. There's extra structural weight where it doesn't need to be, designed to support loads that aren't there.

I think, unfortunately or not, that even with purpose-built EVs we'll stuck with long hoods for a while because designers are attempting to appeal to an ICE-accustom buyer, and they don't want some that "looks weird" or are just plain attracted to the power that a long hood has traditionally expressed.

It's not fair to use the Model 3 as a stand-in for "ground up EV design," despite me agreeing with you that I'd rather own an i4 than a Model 3. But given other choices, the i4 is pretty far down my list.
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crp
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Re: BMW i3 was ahead of its time AGAIN!

I think that BMW would sell many more cars if they would get rid of those giant kidney shaped grill features. They don't belong on an EV imo.

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