Delayed charging for lower off peak rates is a myth in NY

[cove3]

I learned yesterday that the government just extended the 30% $1000 max credit for installing a Level 2 charger through 12/31/2014. So I'm having my electrician install something by year end. In researching out JuiceBox and Clipper Creek units, I've concluded the following:

1. Delayed charging, that is, plug the car in at 5pm, but set a timer so charging starts at midnight to 5AM when rates are low. However, in my area of NY to take advantage of this, you need a new electric meter installed which measures time of use. Unless you can shift a lot of electric use other than the electric vehicle to midnight to 8am, the extra $20 basic monthly charge plus higher peak rates for other uses, rather than the average rate you currently pay for normal daily use, make it appear you will wind up with a much higher overall electric bill.

2. A plug in vs hard wired is an advantage in that you can take it with you if you move. However, hard wired is simply disconnecting a few wires and unscrewing the box, so plug in isn't worth the extra money

3. A 25' cable is a big advantage for parking outside the garage door. It seems 20' wouldn't cut it if you intend any outside the garage charging

4. These units appear to not be UL certified but rather ETL, cETL. My city had very tough codes, so I don't know what that implies

Net: The Juice Box basic or $756 premium with delayed charging is plug in but only comes with a 20' cable. This rules it out
The Clipper Creek hsc 40 hard wired at $590 comes with a 25' cable and I'm inclined to go with that pending finding out about the UL issue.

Anyone with experience with these Level 2 charging issues.....25' cable length, plug in vs hardwired, and delayed charging?

Ron

 

[mindmachine]

I learned yesterday that the government just extended the 30% $1000 max credit for installing a Level 2 charger through 12/31/2014. So I'm having my electrician install something by year end. In researching out JuiceBox and Clipper Creek units, I've concluded the following:

1. Delayed charging, that is, plug the car in at 5pm, but set a timer so charging starts at midnight to 5AM when rates are low. However, in my area of NY to take advantage of this, you need a new electric meter installed which measures time of use. Unless you can shift a lot of electric use other than the electric vehicle to midnight to 8am, the extra $20 basic monthly charge plus higher peak rates for other uses, rather than the average rate you currently pay for normal daily use, make it appear you will wind up with a much higher overall electric bill.

2. A plug in vs hard wired is an advantage in that you can take it with you if you move. However, hard wired is simply disconnecting a few wires and unscrewing the box, so plug in isn't worth the extra money
.
3. A 25' cable is a big advantage for parking outside the garage door. It seems 20' wouldn't cut it if you intend any outside the garage charging

4. These units appear to not be UL certified but rather ETL, cETL. My city had very tough codes, so I don't know what implies

Net: The Juice Box basic or $756 premium with delayed charging is plug in but only comes with a 20' cable. This rules it out
The Clipper Creek hsc 40 hard wired at $590 comes with a 25' cable and I'm inclined to go with that pending finding out about the UL issue.

Anyone with experience with these Level 2 charging issues.....25' cable length, plug in vs hardwired, and delayed charging?

Ron

You can get the clipper creek with a plug for around $30 more if the plug is important to you. I got mine with a plug.

 

[cove3]

The Clipper Creek basic is 590 and the plug in 644 at their web site. There was also some discussion that because of the plug type used for the plug in, the installation requires a 50 amp circuit to be really up to code

They may have raised their prices as the difference is now 54 at their web site. I'm also thinking hard wired is an advantage when selling the house, so I'm going hard wired. Did you run into any problem with the inspector with the unit not being UL approved?

Ron

 

[WoodlandHills]

I thought that delayed charging was done by the car or the iRemote app, not the EVSE. At least, that's how mine works....
Here in LA the TOU meter comes with a $250 or $300 (can't recall exactly) credit towards your bills which means the first years meter fee is free.
LADWP accepts any of the certifications you mention as well as UL, your agency probably will too.
Our meter also had a $750 rebate from the electric company and we all will be able to claim the federal EVSE credit of 30% or $1000 maximum, apply any of those towards the meter fee and it will be a long time before we have to actually pay for it.

 

[cove3]

<<I thought that delayed charging was done by the car or the iRemote app, not the EVSE>>
It is as far as the i3 and e-golf goes, but I don't know about the other evs or plug ins

Juice box premium lists as one of its features delayed charging. Maybe it's for cars that don't the ability to program it from the car

Even though I won't be signing up with Con Ed for the metering, I'll still set the car to delayed charging just to help society by reducing load on the grid

Ron

 

[jadnashuanh]

ANy circuit with a plug, the plug type used must match the wiring to it and the protection circuit (fuse or CB)...so, since there are no USA standard 40A plugs, and you need more than 30A, you have to wire and set things up for 50A (or more). So, to pass a proper inspection in the USA, to use something like the Clipper Creek 32A EVSE, you need either a 40A circuit if you're hard-wiring it, or a 50A circuit if you wish to use a plug. I have a CC unit, and it has been working fine (installed in June 2014). I also installed a panel mount volt/amp meter (bought on AMazon for about $20) in the box feeding the unit so I can monitor the voltage and current. Typically, mine is seeing about 245vac and 29A when the i3 is charging at the beginning (after a short delay). I have not watched it near the end to see it taper down, but they all do as the battery approaches full. During a preconditioning, it will bounce between around 12-19A until the car warms up.

FWIW, some EVSEs have a smart interface that can let you do all sorts of things like monitor it from remote via WiFi, set charging windows, track power usage, etc. They tend to cost a bit more, but the Juice Box (with options) is probably the exception.

I bought the Clipper Creek unit partly because of the price, but also because it was one of the few that was made in the USA. They've been in the business for a long time which doesn't hurt, either.

 

[Sparky]

+1 for the Clippercreek

 

[yowsa]

Can you give more details on the extension of the 30% $1000 max credit for installing a Level 2 charger through 12/31/2014? Is this a State rebate or a Federal rebate?

 

[Sparky]

Fed

 

[yowsa]

Found it: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095984_tax-breaks-back-for-electric-car-charging-stations-natural-gas-cars-through-end-of-year

 

[cove3]

http://www.greencarreports.com/

It's the end of another Congressional session, which means that a budget extension bill has now been rushed through and is likely to be signed.

Called The Tax Increase Prevention Act of 2014 (H.R. 5771), it contains special provisions, rule tweaks, and concessions for many, many, many different constituencies.

It extends more than 50 provisions of the tax code that expired at the end of 2013 or this year--and there's good news for green-car advocates buried in the fine print.
Congress has now extended the tax credit for installation of electric-car charging stations through the end of 2014. (A charging station is technically known as Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, or EVSE.)

Individuals can deduct 30 percent of the cost of purchasing and installing an EVSE up to $1,000, according to Jay Friendland, Plug-In America's senior policy adviser.

 

[alohart]

Congress has now extended the tax credit for installation of electric-car charging stations through the end of 2014. (A charging station is technically known as Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, or EVSE.)

So as not to hijack this thread, see http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2019.

 

[archieb]

I have been charging my EV on TOU rates for the last 3 years. I have Alliant Energy in Wisconsin which provides 12 hours per day off peak, all day on weekends, plus all day on holidays. This works out to 70% of the year is at the off peak rate ($0.055 per kwh). They do not charge for installing a smart meter so there is no up front cost nor extra charge for TOU rates. This means I get to charge my 2012 Volt, being replaced by a 2014 i3 Mega, for about $10-11 a month to go 800-900 miles.

We have also gotten used to doing more things, like dishwasher, laundry, stove/oven, and programable thermostat, during off peak times as much as possible. While the peak time rate is $0.195 per kwh (standard rate is $0.115), we have seen our total energy bill go down about 20%. For us TOU rate works great. It also means that the cost to operate an EV is half of what it would be at standard rates.

Archie

 

[dirtboy]

I built a L2 OpenEVSE kit with a 25' cable. Delayed charging and preconditioning has worked flawlessly from day 1.

 

[Tomasz]

I built a L2 OpenEVSE kit with a 25' cable. Delayed charging and preconditioning has worked flawlessly from day 1.

+1 with the exception that mine is cycling rapidly during preconditioning. But delayed charging works great. Saves me trouble if setting the car differently for work and home.