Kiwi
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:45 pm
Location: Auckland

i3 is over

Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:07 am

With the amount of long range battery Ev's being launched with great designs like the new Jaguar I Pace with a range of 480k who would pay the large dollars BMW requires for a very out of date BMW i3

I33t
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:01 pm
Location: Australia

Re: i3 is over

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:21 am

Jaguar iPace might be good, but starting price in Aussie is $119k plus options. It will be nearly the double cost of the i3 and it is more on the Tesla lead than the i3. Won't be as economical as the i3 either.
2014 BMW i3 BEV deposit placed 19th Dec 2013
Delivered in Melbourne 4/12/2014. Arrived locally 11/12/14, with 24km on the clock.

theothertom
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:08 am
Location: South Carolina

Re: i3 is over

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:04 am

IMO, the i3 is one and done, in that after the normal 7 year cycle, there will be no more new i3's, for the reasons you mention. But, there will be other electrified BMWs, like the Mini, X3, 3 series to name a few. The i3 is good for it's intended purpose...a city car. Seems that most people want a dual purpose car, city and long range.

alohart
Posts: 2074
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:36 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: i3 is over

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:23 pm

For those of us who don't need long range, who tend to keep cars for many years, and who want a compact, light, hatchback, rear-wheel-drive, rust-free EV, the i3 has no competition yet. In a few months, a 120 Ah (~44 kWh) i3 will be available with range that will satisfy even more potential EV drivers. I certainly don't consider our 2014 BEV "very out of date".
Aloha,
Art

2014 BMW i3 Arravani Grey, Giga World, Tech + Driving Assist, Parking Assist, DC Fast Charging, JuiceBox EVSE

sipabit
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:01 am

Re: i3 is over

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:40 pm

Both Toyota and BMW performed studies on the "average" commute and built their car's ranges accordingly. No comment as to whether their findings were right or wrong with the Prius Prime and BMW i3 respectively, but there was some logic on their end in their minds. Many of us may be far from the "average" for our commutes so it's irrelevant.

What's happening though is that the Tesla brand attracted people into the EV scene who really don't have any place being an owner. As a result, the demand for a 150mi range and now 200mi range is just an arbitrary number. Most people won't be driving that number of miles in a single day with round trip commutes for work and soccer mom/dad errands. "People" don't want to compromise and are thinking it's logical to just want to plug their EV in only as often as they get gas. Most of us will know that's just silly, but regardless, the demand is still there for long range EV's.

As long as long range EV's keep getting produced and people who think they actually need/want one end up getting them, the inventory of low range EV's which in fact may be perfect for a larger group of people than who are willing to admit, the prices drop like rocks. So this is perfect for those of us who realize our needs for the range of an EV to be under 100mi per charge.

So I'm not complaining. I hope that more and more people demand larger and larger batteries and pay higher and higher dollars so that I can buy them second hand at steep discounts.

Until the public realizes that they don't need and don't want to pay for more range than they will actually use (which I don't actually anticipate happening anytime soon, especially with the continuing mentality of more is better), the prices of low range EV's (anything under 100mi range) will drop bigly. I do think the sweet spot is the 2015 i3 REX's, particularly now with the high inventory due to lease returns. If you can find something under $22k that has the "world" you want and has the packages you want with miles under 20k, you're in good shape.

The demand for these low range EV's is dropping like a rock b/c people (at least for now) think they need/want the long range stuff. I don't expect to see a drop in 2018+ BMW i3's like we've experienced with the 2015's. People will still find 150mi a compromise (compared to their gas vehicles with 300+ mile "range"), but they won't laugh at it like they do the earlier 60ah battery ones. And as battery prices drop, the manufactures have no choice but to extend the savings to us. I could be wrong, but I do think there's a cap at the upcoming BMW i3 with 150-155mi range. The current 2018 one tops off at around $61k. Can BMW really charge $65k or more for an even longer range EV? At some point people will be buying two stripped down Tesla Model 3's instead of a single BMW i3.

Those of us who recently purchased an i3 or who are looking to buy one should be very happy that some people think "the i3 is over."
A fanatic of all things electric. Ridables like electric ice chests and stand up scooters I adore. Drones like DJI, I root for. I'm a fan of both, but nothing beats my love for my 2016 i3 Rex with Deka World. Shhh, don't tell my wife.

jadnashuanh
Posts: 4990
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Nashua, NH USA

Re: i3 is over

Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:05 pm

Not everyone will have access to DC fast charging, and if they actually need a long range for their normal operations, they may find that they cannot fully recharge overnight! It's not like you can stop at any gas station and refill in minutes (yet!).

None of the manufacturers have taken the time to educate people on BEV operations, and even plug-in hybrids education is lacking. People that think they can just run their new Tesla model 3's battery down, plug it in at home, and expect it to be fully ready in any reasonable time will be in for a surprise. This is true for many of the longer range vehicles.

Throw in that not everyone has enough excess power panel capacity to even max out an EVSE for their vehicle, and that can be a problem, too. Many of the available CCS units are as small as 25Kw, some are 50Kw, the Tesla superchargers are in flux, but around 120Kw is their max. There's a new standard for CCS units that could reach as high as 350Kw, but except one or two in Germany, I don't think there are any around, and none of the current EVs can use them, either (Porsche is using one to test their prototype). Some of the public EVSEs out there are only in the 25A range at 208vac, too. On a large battery, maybe a day to recharge!

Our current federal government is not really helping the future of EVs with fast charging. Tesla has the right idea, but still, the units have a long ways to go to become as convenient as filling up a gas tank.

If we ever get to the point of electric roadways, EVs will be everywhere, and battery size won't be a major issue since you'll charge from the roadway or maybe wirelessly over the air. Maybe by then, we'll have flying cars...IOW, don't hold your breath!

There will always be a place for a shorter range EV, it's just getting people to recognize the fact that they may be a candidate is tough. Batteries will tend to get lighter and have higher storage capacity, but weight is a major component of your maximum range...you cannot overcome the physics of starting and stopping extra mass - it takes energy, and recovery is never going to be super efficient (it could be better, but that also adds to the costs).

Saving weight is an issue, and big batteries doesn't help.
Jim DeBruycker
2011 535i x-drive GT, 2014 i3 BEV
Soon (hopefully!) A 2021 X5 45e will replace the above

Kiwi
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:45 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: i3 is over

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:07 am

480k battery is over the top for most. What is required is a 300k true range for trips to out of town favourite Sunday lunch stops

Is EV batteries going to be larger versions of iPhone batteries which could degrade faster than we believe. Our fuel savings maybe eaten up with having to replace there batteries. Some say sell the cars early but the price will be subject to the life left in the battery. I'm still a big believer in hybrid plugins. Battery replacements will be a lot cheaper than full battery only cars. My hybrid plugin is achieving 80% battery milage after 20 months of ownership.

BMW X3ev is going to be a lot more expensive than an i3. BMW should be using the X1 or Active Tourer as their first fully battery EV. This will bring it to more buyers. Mini as well will also be expensive. BMW New Zealand has only planned on selling 25 i3's a year and to me BMW is only playing with batteries and have no real plan on selling EV's main stream to BMW buyers.

ASUN
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:25 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: i3 is over

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:45 am

Kiwi wrote:With the amount of long range battery Ev's being launched with great designs like the new Jaguar I Pace with a range of 480k who would pay the large dollars BMW requires for a very out of date BMW i3
The "i" division of BMW was only meant to be a test platform for the future of electrifying their entire line up of cars.

I say it has been a success, and hopefully they have learned enough to fully incorporate other cars as EVs.

Comparing an i3 to a much more expensive, more range I Pace is like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a BMW 3 series.
- ASUN, 2016 BMW i3 BEV, Arravani Grey, Suite Interior, 20's, since Oct 25, 2015

Kiwi
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:45 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: i3 is over

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:25 pm

ASUN wrote:
Kiwi wrote:With the amount of long range battery Ev's being launched with great designs like the new Jaguar I Pace with a range of 480k who would pay the large dollars BMW requires for a very out of date BMW i3
The "i" division of BMW was only meant to be a test platform for the future of electrifying their entire line up of cars.

I say it has been a success, and hopefully they have learned enough to fully incorporate other cars as EVs.

Comparing an i3 to a much more expensive, more range I Pace is like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a BMW 3 series.
Once you get up into the i3 money it doesn't take much to throw another 50k into the pot.

A black i3 was in town today and I still like the i3 design. I would never buy a Jaguar just throwing some discussions in. BMW is the only vehicles we purchase and we have 3 BMW Motor Sports in the garage.

Milam
Gold Member
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: i3 is over

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:58 am

Kiwi:

I have a 2017 i3.

Is your sport model a big improvement?

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