I am probably going to pass on the i3...

[toolworker]

Here's another data point - a review of the REx which says:

"First, a 70-mile journey (no problem for the range-extender, of course) turned out to use the car's full 65 miles of electric range. Some of that might have been down to the weather, and the route between London and their Folkestone destination isn't the flattest of trips either. All this can eat into range."

The electric range of the REx model will be a bit less than the BEV, but you get the idea.

 

[Yiiikes]

Thanks Toolworker

 

[Stevei3]

Here's another data point - a review of the REx

Hi Toolworker,

that linked article doesn't appear to be a review to me, if I may say so, but a rehash of the much debated quote from the infamous Telegraph review. The fun bit is that the author of the original Telegraph article actually likes the car, but he wanted to know what happens if you push the car/REx out of its comfort zone.

Regards, Steven

 

[i3me]

Here's another data point - a review of the REx which says:

"First, a 70-mile journey (no problem for the range-extender, of course) turned out to use the car's full 65 miles of electric range. Some of that might have been down to the weather, and the route between London and their Folkestone destination isn't the flattest of trips either. All this can eat into range."

The electric range of the REx model will be a bit less than the BEV, but you get the idea.

If range is what you're looking for, you have to drive the i3 for range and not for performance!

After driving my BEV i3 for almost 1500km I've driven both for pure range and for pure fun. When going for range, driving in EcoPro, lowering cabin temperature and limiting your carriageway speed to max 60mph gives an 80 mile range (120km) and costs 5 minutes extra travel time compared to 65mph.

Of course it would have been nicer if BMW had given the i3 more range but then it would have turned into a Tesla! :mrgreen:

 

[ecoangel]

I think the best range can be achieved in NL/Holland just as it's the best place to cycle but if you want to train for the Tour de France maybe not!

Hills and traffic speed have a huge influence on EV range - especially in winter. The i3 is not an aerodynamic cruiser but a city car. If you want more than 60 miles range in Winter you have to compromise as suggested - you will arrive later and much colder!

Getting back into my A2 1.2 TDI after the 24 h test drive of the i3 I missed the initial acceleration and low speed silence, but once on the dual carriageway the noise was actually lower and 50 to 70 mph felt less resistive.

In UK traffic on A and B roads with 65mph on Dual carriageways I managed 60 miles per charge with the EV i3 and that was in "flattest Lincolnshire" although NL is even flatter in Eco Pro mode with EP+ engaged to return to dealer with 6 miles on clock remaining. The A2 returns around 80 mpg in winter and if careful in summer I've managed 103 mpg on a 28 mile commute. Back in 2002, on the German autobahn she returned 66mpg with an average speed of 90 mph fully loaded with luggage, pax and extra 4 wheels and tyres.

I think tech as it stands is EV for urban and advanced TDI for long trips. Trouble is the latter are coupled to ever larger and heavier cars!

 

[Nu2ecar]

i3me and ecoangel, those estimates of range are a disappointment to me. I was hoping for 80 miles when driven fairly aggressively. I live in San Diego which is not hilly, but there mesa and canyons, and I'll be living on a steep hill. Currently I drive 8 000 miles a year, which works out at 25 miles a day when I am in town. But I shall be moving and I think my average will go up. And it's only an average. I don't commute to work. I've been weighing up a Tesla or an i3. I thought the i3 was more practical as a town car. Now I'm not so sure. I won't buy the Rex. A purist I guess.

 

[toolworker]

For me it's a question of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I drive about 45% on electric with my Plug-in Prius. I'm really tired of watching my range and keeping my right foot gentle on the pedal.

With the REx I'd probably be 100% electric. But if it was 95% I'd be happy, and I wouldn't have to worry about driving economically, getting close on range, or finding charging stations.

No way will I buy an all-electric with under 150 miles range. Weather and driving conditions, hills, stop and go, and battery aging will all eat away at that. If I could trust the BEV to give me 80 miles for the life of the battery pack under all conditions it'd be a different story.

(And no, I don't want a Tesla. Too big, and not enough amenities for the price.)

 

[Ross]

These range numbers are disturbing me a little - my i3 is arriving on 1st March.

So is BMW's 80-120 miles range nonsense? It seems 60-80 miles is what people are actually achieving.

All the original reviews seemed to indicate that BMW's figures were realistic but it seems now real people are using them that isn't the case.

 

[TomMoloughney]

These range numbers are disturbing me a little - my i3 is arriving on 1st March.

So is BMW's 80-120 miles range nonsense? It seems 60-80 miles is what people are actually achieving.

All the original reviews seemed to indicate that BMW's figures were realistic but it seems now real people are using them that isn't the case.

Hi Ross,

There is a LOT of factors that determine the range. How you drive, weather and what kind of driving you do really can impact the daily usable range of any EV. I drive an ActiveE and I can usually average about 85 miles per charge in the warmer months (temperatures above 5 degrees Celsius) but I have friends that have one too and some get 90 -95 miles per charge and others get 80 miles per charge on average, so the individual has a lot to do with what they will likely average. Also, we are in the colder months now so you will see the lowest range of the year now. It is entirely likely that in December through February you will see 60 - 80 miles as the norm and once it warms up a bit 80 - 100 an easy target to hit.
So yeah, 60 - 100 miles per charge conditions depending is probably more accurate than saying 80 - 100 miles, but you know manufacturers won't tell you everything. Tesla for example advertises the 85 kWh Model S as a "300 mile EV", but in reality, it is more like a 175 mile to 275 mile EV, conditions permitting. Yes, it's possible to get 300 miles from one, and it's possible to get 120 miles out of an i3 if it's 24 degrees celsius out, and you drive a constant 45mph...

 

[LMOR]

These range numbers are disturbing me a little - my i3 is arriving on 1st March.

So is BMW's 80-120 miles range nonsense? It seems 60-80 miles is what people are actually achieving.

All the original reviews seemed to indicate that BMW's figures were realistic but it seems now real people are using them that isn't the case.

The official figures are 80-100, and 75-95 for REX

These is summer figures, and you need the heat pump to come close to the same in the winter. Here in Norway reports so fra shows around 80 in comfort and 100 with ECO pro+ with heat pump in normal winter conditions.

 

[Ross]

BMW quote 80-100 miles in comfort mode
up to 112 miles in Eco Pro
up to 125 miles in Eco Pro+

"With the standard COMFORT setting, the BMW i3’s real-world range is between 80-100 miles – depending on driving style, traffic situation and road conditions. ECO PRO mode, with the adapted accelerator pedal feature, demands less power, and increases the possible range by up to 12 miles.* The ECO PRO+ mode is specifically oriented for range. For this reason, the top speed of the BMW i3 is reduced to 56 mph and systems including heating and air conditioning switch to energy-saving mode. When compared to the COMFORT mode, the possible range is increased by up to 25 miles.*"

It seems that these figures are pure fantasy even though BM use "real-world range" when talking about these figures.

Luckily I have ordered the heat pump and don't NEED it to do 80 miles as my daily drive will be about 60 miles. All still a bit disappointing though.

 

[ecoangel]

Those figures are for i3 indoors (warm!) on a rolling road with no wind resistance!

Real world i3 BEV is around 60 miles range in 5 deg C mild winter.

Rex about 120 miles (30 mpg on petrol)

 

[LMOR]

Those figures are for i3 indoors (warm!) on a rolling road with no wind resistance!

Real world i3 BEV is around 60 miles range in 5 deg C mild winter.

Rex about 120 miles (30 mpg on petrol)

Then you either run it very rough, or you have a fault. 80 should be normal with heat pump in a city at 5C

 

[ecoangel]

BEV results were pretty smooth driving style in the main with ECO PRO, you can read the details here:

http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=504

Mostly A and B road commute with a little EP+ city driving. The i3 is not very aerodynamic and is restricted by having just the 1 gear ratio (10:1) so anything above 40 mph eats the range. In UK national speed limit is 60 mph with 70 mph on dual carriageways and motorways. Most folk drive around 50 to 60 on larger A roads not 40 mph, unless following an HGV.

My average speed over 29 mile commute was around 37 mph.

You will get more around town as average speed might be more like 12 to 19 mph.

http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-11-19/tfl-average-traffic-speeds-are-less-than-20-mph-in-london/

 

[toolworker]

The i3 is not very aerodynamic and is restricted by having just the 1 gear ratio (10:1) so anything above 40 mph eats the range.

Eats the range how much?

My once a week commute is 53 miles round trip, 3/4 of it at 65 - 70 mph (traffic permitting) with several up and downs of maybe 300 feet (large bridges).

So what would the range be like at 70 mph, driving normally?

 

[TomMoloughney]

The i3 is not very aerodynamic and is restricted by having just the 1 gear ratio (10:1) so anything above 40 mph eats the range.

Eats the range how much?

My once a week commute is 53 miles round trip, 3/4 of it at 65 - 70 mph (traffic permitting) with several up and downs of maybe 300 feet (large bridges).

So what would the range be like at 70 mph, driving normally?

You should have no problem with that round trip. However If you can manage to find even a simple standard outlet somewhere while you are working it would be great. Usually it's not as hard to do so as people expect. Just make sure you ask permission first.

As your speed increases, you lose range exponentially. I would suspect you can expect to lose around 20% of your range traveling at 70mph as compared to 50mph. take that up to 85mph and you likely lose as much as 50%. 65 to 70mph shouldn't be too bad, just keep it at 70 or under unless you have range to burn.

 

[woof]

Eats the range how much?

My guess is the LEAF and the i3 are going to have similar range in nice weather.

To get a good feel about speed vs range, take a look at how the LEAF range varies with speed here
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295#p101293

At 100% charge, and 55 mph, the LEAF can go 89 miles.
At 100% charge, and 70 mph, the LEAF can go 68 miles.

As the chart shows, the amount of energy needed to push the air out of the way increases drastically with speed, and thus the range suffers greatly at higher speeds.

--Woof!

 

[Mike74jcw]

Based on my year with a LEAF, those numbers sound about right (maybe even a tad low depending on how you drive) for warmer times of the year. Would say a bit less for colder months.

 

[Ross]

Those figures are for i3 indoors (warm!) on a rolling road with no wind resistance!

Why then would BMW say "real world range" when referring to those figures.

If they aren't REALLY achievable then they are going to have some miffed customers.

 

[SanSerif]

Those figures are for i3 indoors (warm!) on a rolling road with no wind resistance!

The BMW marketing materials (and the Renault marketing materials for the Zoe) are explicit in the difference between the indoor artifical NEDC measured range (which is consistent but, as you say, is a bit fanciful) and an indicated "real world" obtainable range.

The NEDC range for the i3 is 118 miles while BMW's materials say 80 - 100 miles.

Being an old cynic, when I was working out whether the i3 had sufficient range for us I used 65 miles as my range estimate. Hopefully this is too pessimistic (unless hammering it on the motorway, in winter, uphill and fully loaded!)