maximum charging rate for 120V?

[TonyWilliams]

I can test at any voltage or amperage.

I'll do a test after our morning i3 meet-up at Liberty Station in San Diego.

 

[Tomasz]

I can spare you all the trouble. i3 is capable of drawing 30Amps no matter what voltage. I charge it every day at work on 120V/24Amps, I've tested it before on 30A L1 and it worked just fine.

P.S. Also no matter what voltage it won't draw more than 30Amp so the only time you can get 7.4kWh is when you are on 240V.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I can spare you all the trouble. i3 is capable of drawing 30Amps no matter what voltage. I charge it every day at work on 120V/24Amps, I've tested it before on 30A L1 and it worked just fine.

P.S. Also no matter what voltage it won't draw more than 30Amp so the only time you can get 7.4kWh is when you are on 240V.

Well, I suspect you didn't actually measure anything.

I did measure 19 amps last night on 122.7 volts, with a 40 amp pilot signal from a JESLA with NEMA 14-50 plug.

I used a Fluke 177 and i410 to measure amps and volts.

 

[Tomasz]

I can spare you all the trouble. i3 is capable of drawing 30Amps no matter what voltage. I charge it every day at work on 120V/24Amps, I've tested it before on 30A L1 and it worked just fine.

P.S. Also no matter what voltage it won't draw more than 30Amp so the only time you can get 7.4kWh is when you are on 240V.

Well, I suspect you didn't actually measure anything.

I did measure 19 amps last night on 122.7 volts, with a 40 amp pilot signal from a JESLA with NEMA 14-50 plug.

I used a Fluke 177 and i410 to measure amps and volts.

Did you wait for the i3 to ramp up it's current? When you plug in i3 on L1 with pilot over 24A it'll initially draw limited current (in my case it was 17Amp) and then after about 2 minutes something kicks in and it starts drawing up to 30Amps.

I've run full set of tests over an hour long period recording both voltage and amperage my i3 was drawing with pilots set from 12 to 32Amps incrementally. All my measurements (including time to full charge) confirm - my i3 is capable of drawing 30A on L1.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I can spare you all the trouble. i3 is capable of drawing 30Amps no matter what voltage. I charge it every day at work on 120V/24Amps, I've tested it before on 30A L1 and it worked just fine.

P.S. Also no matter what voltage it won't draw more than 30Amp so the only time you can get 7.4kWh is when you are on 240V.

Well, I suspect you didn't actually measure anything.

I did measure 19 amps last night on 122.7 volts, with a 40 amp pilot signal from a JESLA with NEMA 14-50 plug.

I used a Fluke 177 and i410 to measure amps and volts.

Did you wait for the i3 to ramp up it's current? When you plug in i3 on L1 with pilot over 24A it'll initially draw limited current (in my case it was 17Amp) and then after about 2 minutes something kicks in and it starts drawing up to 30Amps.

I've run full set of tests over an hour long period recording both voltage and amperage my i3 was drawing with pilots set from 12 to 32Amps incrementally. All my measurements (including time to full charge) confirm - my i3 is capable of drawing 30A on L1.

Apparently, there is a reduced charge rate software setting that I need to check.

Will run the test again.

 

[Tomasz]

Apparently, there is a reduced charge rate software setting that I need to check.

Will run the test again.

Is the i3 you're testing with equipped with latest KLE and firmware?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Apparently, there is a reduced charge rate software setting that I need to check.

Will run the test again.

Is the i3 you're testing with equipped with latest KLE and firmware?

I don't actually know. I've only had the car one month. How can I check (without going to the dealer)?

 

[TonyWilliams]

You guys will love this! All tests with JESLA EVSE 40 amp pilot signal, Fluke 177 and i410

My garage and subsequent battery temperature is 70-75F degrees, and the SOC is about 25%

*********

19 amps on 120 volts
19 amps on 240 volts

L1 - Low
L2 - Reduced

********

14.6 amps on 120 volts
19.2 amps on 240 volts

L1 - Reduced
L2 - Reduced

********

14.6 amps on 120 volts
30.1 amps on 240 volts

L1 - Max
L2 - Max

*********

 

[Tomasz]

You guys will love this! All tests with JESLA EVSE 40 amp pilot signal, Fluke 177 and i410

********

14.6 amps on 120 volts
30.1 amps on 240 volts

L1 - Max
L2 - Max

*********

I'll ask again - did you wait about 3 minutes to confirm that result?

My i3 is instantly drawing 30A on L2 Max, but on L1 Max it draws about 15A for first 2 minutes and then ramps up to full 30A:

 

[alohart]

The J1772 standard states that 16 amps is the maximum for Level 1 charging. If various EV's are allowing higher amperages, are they purposely violating J1772? I suppose since the same J1772 plug and wiring is being used at much higher Level 2 amperages and voltages, there must not be any significant danger.

 

[alohart]

You guys will love this!

Not really. You dismissed Tomasz' observations opining that he probably "didn't actually measure anything". Then you post a set of ridiculous measurements that you should have double-checked before posting. Then Tomasz posts a graph of the measurements that you didn't think he made. Tomasz' measurements are certainly looking more convincing than yours until you can explain them. Either your JESLA is ignoring the i3's pilot signal which specifies 8 (Low), 10 (Reduced), and 12 (Max) amps at Level 1, or your measurements are bogus for some reason that should have made you suspicious enough to investigate them further before posting. But your disdain of the i3 in favor of anything with a Tesla drive system (e.g., Model S, RAV4 EV, MB B Class EV) is well-known in this and other i3 forums, so you seem to take particular pleasure putting down the i3 in any way you can. This certainly isn't the best way to sell your products to i3 owners.

You obviously do many good things in real life, but you really need to think about how you express yourself in writing before posting because you come across as rather pompous at times.

 

[jadnashuanh]

FWIW, it is the EVSE that announces the amount of max current it can support, and it is then up to the car to decide how much it wants to use. Especially on 120vac, since that often is not a dedicated circuit, instead of blindly following the pilot signal which might overload the shared circuit, the car can be programmed to only use less.

The wiring is set to utilize a max of 30A, and it doesn't really matter to the wiring if that is at 120vac or 240vac, but the electronics may or may not be able to handle it. It's harder to handle it at 240vac since that effectively doubles the power being delivered, but if you actually limit things to 30A, and not some power, then it should work.

 

[i3an]

OK, most of this is over my head, but let me ask this simple question.
Right now I am charging up at home from a dedicated 120vac outlet running off a 20A breaker; if I then replace this with a 30A breaker, will my i3 sense this and charge up faster?

 

[jadnashuanh]

OK, most of this is over my head, but let me ask this simple question.
Right now I am charging up at home from a dedicated 120vac outlet running off a 20A breaker; if I then replace this with a 30A breaker, will my i3 sense this and charge up faster?

No! The limiting factor on and EVSE is first, its design, and second, it assumes it is wired properly. Taking the same unit and plugging it into a 15, or 20A (or bigger, but at 120vac, there isn't a bigger standard) circuit doesn't change what it can do. Using a DIFFERENT EVSE may mean that it NEEDS a bigger supply to be code compliant.

It is the EVSE that tells the EV how much power it can provide, and that assumes it is wired to a supply capable to provide what it says. SOrt of like plugging in a 60W lamp...it could care less whether it was a 15A or 20A, or more circuit. The voltage will matter, and because power=volts*amps...switching to an EVSE that works with higher voltages (say 240 verses 120vac) will double the power at the same amps. Some EVSE's will work on multiple voltages and come with (sometimes optional) plugs to make them able to fit the wall plug.

IOW, to maximize the power going into an EV, you want to raise the input voltage (in EV speak, switch to a level 2 unit) and on an i3, that means a 30A, 240vac level 2 unit. You can recharge one even faster if you have a CCS unit - instead of about 7.4Kw, the i3 can handle up to 50Kw from one of them - by moving the ac-dc conversion outside of the car in a CCS unit, you can then feed the batteries directly, and you don't then use the power supply in the car to make the 400vdc needed to recharge the batteries. Otherwise, it is the power supply in the car that does the ac-dc power conversion which generates some heat, and is the thing that limits the car to 30A.

 

[i3an]

Jim, thanks for that clarification.

 

[Tomasz]

OK, most of this is over my head, but let me ask this simple question.
Right now I am charging up at home from a dedicated 120vac outlet running off a 20A breaker; if I then replace this with a 30A breaker, will my i3 sense this and charge up faster?

No but you can get different EVSE (or modify your existing one) to accommodate the changes. Assuming of course that your wiring is capable of handling 30A as well.

 

[jadnashuanh]

No but you can get different EVSE (or modify your existing one) to accommodate the changes. Assuming of course that your wiring is capable of handling 30A as well.

Modifying an existing EVSE will usually void any UL listing it may have had, so proceed with caution!

There are a few out there that are user adjustable so that they could be used on smaller circuits, but going larger than it was designed for would mean adjusting the pilot signal, and then, the power switching circuit may not be able to handle it, if you could figure out how to adjust the pilot signal in the first place.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You guys will love this!

Not really. You dismissed Tomasz' observations opining that he probably "didn't actually measure anything". Then you post a set of ridiculous measurements that you should have double-checked before posting. Then Tomasz posts a graph of the measurements that you didn't think he made. Tomasz' measurements are certainly looking more convincing than yours until you can explain them. Either your JESLA is ignoring the i3's pilot signal which specifies 8 (Low), 10 (Reduced), and 12 (Max) amps at Level 1, or your measurements are bogus for some reason that should have made you suspicious enough to investigate them further before posting. But your disdain of the i3 in favor of anything with a Tesla drive system (e.g., Model S, RAV4 EV, MB B Class EV) is well-known in this and other i3 forums, so you seem to take particular pleasure putting down the i3 in any way you can. This certainly isn't the best way to sell your products to i3 owners.

You obviously do many good things in real life, but you really need to think about how you express yourself in writing before posting because you come across as rather pompous at times.

Not really sure how to respond to your hate-fest... Yes, as a multi-time BMW owner (car and motorcycle), I hate BMW. Great insight.

Sure, it makes perfect sense that JESLA is "to blame" and accuse me of shoddy work. Stating that JESLA is "ignoring" the car only shows your ignorance of how the charge sequence works. The EVSE advertises (through a 1kHz +12 volt / -12 volt square wave) over the pilot signal as to how many amps the car can safely pull.

Then, the car pulls only up to that amount, and no more. Since the JESLA is sending a 40 amp pilot signal, the car is free to pull up to 40 amps. So, to be clear, any EVSE like our JESLA will only inform the car, and the car will react. The car could completely override the EVSE, since there's generally no mechanical method to prevent it.

There's always "somebody" on these forums... There's "that guy" actually on every forum, accusing somebody of "hating" whatever it is that is counter to their position. I'll put you on my ignore list.

*******

The Tesla powered vehicles (except Roadster) do the following:

L1 - 120 volts - 20 amps, except newest firmware in Model S is 24 amps
L2 - 240 volts - 40 amps, except Model S with "twin chargers" @ 80 amps

 

[TonyWilliams]

OK, most of this is over my head, but let me ask this simple question.
Right now I am charging up at home from a dedicated 120vac outlet running off a 20A breaker; if I then replace this with a 30A breaker, will my i3 sense this and charge up faster?

No, there's a bit more to it than that.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You guys will love this! All tests with JESLA EVSE 40 amp pilot signal, Fluke 177 and i410

********

14.6 amps on 120 volts
30.1 amps on 240 volts

L1 - Max
L2 - Max

*********

I'll ask again - did you wait about 3 minutes to confirm that result?

My i3 is instantly drawing 30A on L2 Max, but on L1 Max it draws about 15A for first 2 minutes and then ramps up to full 30A:

Interesting... I'm pretty sure that I spent over 3 minutes fiddling around each time, since I measured at the breaker, which is outside, and the i3 is in the garage.

So, there are still variables to check:

1) i3 firmware
2) Different EVSE pilot signal
3) Wait over 3 minutes

Round three of i3 testing starts today. Thanks for all the insight.