Baloney! The idea that the i3 is behind the EV innovation curve denies fact and reason. I am a frequent reader of this blog and have learned a great deal about the i3 and electric vehicles in general from the discussion of my colleagues. Occasionally I am a contributor to the discussion. But this conversation produces neither light nor enlightenment. It is much like the recent discussion in these pages about a class action suit against BMW, a discussion that from the outset was going nowhere. Certainly everyone has a right to voice an opinion, but now, once done, let us turn our attention to positive suggestions about improving the i3, providing the company that has given us such an exciting driving experience with information or critical insight in order to make it even better. As for me, I don't want electric seats or mirrors or comforts that will add to the weight of the vehicle. Part of the innovation of the i3 is its weight. Friends, let us turn our attention to the discussion of things drawn from our experience with the i3 or from a knowledge base that helps us understand better this vehicle and the future of EV's.
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elptex
Well-known member
drb said:Baloney! The idea that the i3 is behind the EV innovation curve denies fact and reason. I am a frequent reader of this blog and have learned a great deal about the i3 and electric vehicles in general from the discussion of my colleagues. Occasionally I am a contributor to the discussion. But this conversation produces neither light nor enlightenment. It is much like the recent discussion in these pages about a class action suit against BMW, a discussion that from the outset was going nowhere. Certainly everyone has a right to voice an opinion, but now, once done, let us turn our attention to positive suggestions about improving the i3, providing the company that has given us such an exciting driving experience with information or critical insight in order to make it even better. As for me, I don't want electric seats or mirrors or comforts that will add to the weight of the vehicle. Part of the innovation of the i3 is its weight. Friends, let us turn our attention to the discussion of things drawn from our experience with the i3 or from a knowledge base that helps us understand better this vehicle and the future of EV's.
Doesn't sound like you actually read this thread. Lots of positive discussion on where areas of innovation are coming from. And certainly none of the personal/political/religious nonsense of the thread you reference.
I read the thread. The central contention that kicked off this thread is that BMW is behind the curve and no longer leading edge in the development of Electric Vehicle technology. If you consider the i3, this is not a serious contention. Please see Anton Wahlman or Dan Neil of the Wall Street Journal on the breakthrough EV technology represented by the i3.
Bottom line: the TESLA is superb with few complaints and so many accolades: many people
expect BMW to be grand without problems, but the new venture is very difficult.
It is better than the Leaf?
far worse than the Tesla?
comparable to the VOLT??
I guess when my lease runs out in April 2015: I will do more research: but Volt is looking better
expect BMW to be grand without problems, but the new venture is very difficult.
It is better than the Leaf?
far worse than the Tesla?
comparable to the VOLT??
I guess when my lease runs out in April 2015: I will do more research: but Volt is looking better
jadnashuanh
Well-known member
The i3 is about 20-25% more efficient on the EPA's mpge testing than the Tesla, and better than any other EV sold in the USA. It is the only one available with a nonrusting, light-weight, strong, repairable CFRP 'life module'. It is the only one where materials were chosen for their manufacturing impact and recyclability from inception to end of life. If that isn't leading, maybe I don't understand the definition.
Both the Tesla and the Volt were designed for different purposes than the i3. Certainly, you could try to emulate their functions, but BMW didn't try...expect some of the follow-on products to address that market. The battery pack in the Tesla is 3-4x as big as the i3, and it doesn't get 3-4x the range. The i3 with REx has a 34Hp engine, the Volt, about 84Hp...one would expect them to operate differently. The max EV range on the i3 is much greater, both BEV and REx than the Volt and on par with the Leaf. The driving characteristics and standard and optional features on the i3 make the Leaf look like an economy car, and a huge thing for me, neither I nor what I like to carry in my car fit in either the LEaf nor the Volt. My whole goal of buying the BEV was to fill in for the majority of my short trips where the ICE was never getting warmed up which puts it on the worst part of the fuel economy curve and doesn't do any good for the oil, deposits, nor muffler on an ICE.
It all depends on what your goal is. If it is to be your only car, an i3 may not be the best choice. A car like the Volt could be, since with 84Hp, it can keep itself going and keep the battery up. A Tesla, if you take it on a long trip and aren't near a supercharger, your stops will be very long to refill that 60-85Kw huge, heavy, hunk of battery. So, it's not ideal as an ICE replacement, either. The i8, with the quite powerful ICE, has better EV range than some, and enough power to recharge the batteries and make some sports cars look sick.
Personally, I think they are leading, but that's IMHO.
Both the Tesla and the Volt were designed for different purposes than the i3. Certainly, you could try to emulate their functions, but BMW didn't try...expect some of the follow-on products to address that market. The battery pack in the Tesla is 3-4x as big as the i3, and it doesn't get 3-4x the range. The i3 with REx has a 34Hp engine, the Volt, about 84Hp...one would expect them to operate differently. The max EV range on the i3 is much greater, both BEV and REx than the Volt and on par with the Leaf. The driving characteristics and standard and optional features on the i3 make the Leaf look like an economy car, and a huge thing for me, neither I nor what I like to carry in my car fit in either the LEaf nor the Volt. My whole goal of buying the BEV was to fill in for the majority of my short trips where the ICE was never getting warmed up which puts it on the worst part of the fuel economy curve and doesn't do any good for the oil, deposits, nor muffler on an ICE.
It all depends on what your goal is. If it is to be your only car, an i3 may not be the best choice. A car like the Volt could be, since with 84Hp, it can keep itself going and keep the battery up. A Tesla, if you take it on a long trip and aren't near a supercharger, your stops will be very long to refill that 60-85Kw huge, heavy, hunk of battery. So, it's not ideal as an ICE replacement, either. The i8, with the quite powerful ICE, has better EV range than some, and enough power to recharge the batteries and make some sports cars look sick.
Personally, I think they are leading, but that's IMHO.
Great points in favor of the BMW:
some additional coments:
AM radio does NOT come with the BMW:
SiriusXM Radio - New - SiriusXM.com
External am analog antenna:
will take care of this problem claims sirius: am radio is very important to many
try driving with a portable radio and see if am works?
Would you highly recommend a in home charger?
How are the front seats comfort wise?
Did everyone hear the BMW is working on a vacation package: free loaners for longer trips
YOU can try for free: 48 hour test drive for the BMW i3 would be very important
some additional coments:
AM radio does NOT come with the BMW:
SiriusXM Radio - New - SiriusXM.com
External am analog antenna:
will take care of this problem claims sirius: am radio is very important to many
try driving with a portable radio and see if am works?
Would you highly recommend a in home charger?
How are the front seats comfort wise?
Did everyone hear the BMW is working on a vacation package: free loaners for longer trips
YOU can try for free: 48 hour test drive for the BMW i3 would be very important
ultraturtle
Well-known member
At 124 MPGe, the BMW i3 is actually 31% - 39% more efficient than the Tesla Model S (95 MPGe for the 60 kWh version, 89 MPGe for the 85 kWh one).jadnashuanh said:The i3 is about 20-25% more efficient on the EPA's mpge testing than the Tesla
It kind of does. The hardware is there, but the electric drivetrain creates enough reception interference (noise) that BMW did not want to deal with the inevitable user complaints, so they simply disabled the AM receiver in software. You can enable the AM radio if you are willing to part with $20 for hardware, $30 to share a software token, and an hour or two of your time to wade through some slightly nerdy software: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/719389491468248/dlass0123 said:AM radio does NOT come with the BMW:
Boatguy
Well-known member
The MPGe "efficiency" comparisons are an interesting piece of this thread and a measure of the lack of understanding of the underlying technology. With regard to range, a Tesla to i3 comparison is apples to oranges as this post on Tom's blog really sums up nicely http://bmwi3.blogspot.it/2014/08/guest-post-efficiency-or-range-you-cant_13.html.
Much more so than an ICE, EV range must always be a trade off with efficiency (aka MPGe). More range means packing a bigger battery which means more weight which means less efficiency. Each EV design occupies a point on the spectrum of range / efficiency. Tesla chose a point that really stretched the limits of range, the i3 opted for efficiency because its design brief was for a "mega city" car. This is not likely to change anytime soon.
In our house we solve this with two cars, the i3 for "local" trips and a Mercedes diesel for road trips (range ~ 600miles). Tesla's supercharger network is definitely stretching the practical range of an EV, but the limits still exist. My hope is that in 5yrs a true universal standard (SAE Combo?) for fast charging will be in place. But for now, the first question, and rightfully so, is "what range do you get"...
Much more so than an ICE, EV range must always be a trade off with efficiency (aka MPGe). More range means packing a bigger battery which means more weight which means less efficiency. Each EV design occupies a point on the spectrum of range / efficiency. Tesla chose a point that really stretched the limits of range, the i3 opted for efficiency because its design brief was for a "mega city" car. This is not likely to change anytime soon.
In our house we solve this with two cars, the i3 for "local" trips and a Mercedes diesel for road trips (range ~ 600miles). Tesla's supercharger network is definitely stretching the practical range of an EV, but the limits still exist. My hope is that in 5yrs a true universal standard (SAE Combo?) for fast charging will be in place. But for now, the first question, and rightfully so, is "what range do you get"...
