New i3 owner from TX

[Nfinitecc]

Hi all, my name is Craig from Houston TX. Unfortunately for me I was involved in a serious auto accident on the 10th, my beloved Tahoe that I put over 160k miles on saved my life that day, but was sad to say...a goner. So, I went out looking for a new, reasonably priced car for my lady to drive, we are a three car household so I agreed to take her 16’ Tacoma and she could get something small and fun to run around town. After 2 days I was almost signing papers on a new Fiat Abarth 500, that car is a blast to drive, but the poor frontal crash test rating combined with the feeling it was just to small to be safe kept me looking. I ran across a BMW i3 at a local car dealer and was instantly interested, I couldn’t get over the unique interior and the materials used. It’s safe to say I was totally sold after one trip. I’m now the owner of a 16’ i3 REX with 7k on the clock. The dealer of course gave me delivery of a car with 5 miles of charge on the battery and a gas can for the REX. I was nervous but she made the 60 miles journey home no problem. I’m currently on the waiting list with my electrician to install a 240 service box in my garage so I can wire up a clipper creek. Anyway sorry to ramble but I’m absolutely blown away by this car and how much fun it is, I hope to add to the community if possible. See y’all around!

 

[theothertom]

Congrats and welcome.
Just curious, why did you choose Clipper Creek over other brands?

 

[Nfinitecc]

I chose the clipper creek for the UL certification, various reviews, and I felt good about the fact that clipper creek was selected to pair with Tesla charging stations. Just seemed like a solid choice.

 

[jadnashuanh]

Clipper Creek has been in the business for about as long as EVSEs have been needed by EVs. Rugged, no-frill devices, made in the USA (which is harder and harder to come by these days). If you want some frills, they may not be for you. Mine's over 4-years old, works as new, and I expect it to continue. ANd, no, I don't work for them or receive any benefit from saying that. At that time four years ago, there weren't all that many that were both made in the USA and had a UL approval.

 

[theothertom]

Thanks. I'm in the market for a 40 amp EVSE and have researched Clipper Creek and Juice Box pro Lite (the no frills version)
Both are made in the US. JB says they use both domestic and foreign parts, CC says domestic. I'm not sure how you can really tell these days.
I think both are UL approved ?
CC has a 25 foot long charge cord, JB's is 24.
The big deal to me is that JB is $499 and CC is $659. Both with free shipping.

Let me know if I've missed anything,

 

[jadnashuanh]

People have had good luck with both from what I've read. The JuiceBox didn't have UL approval initially.

 

[ted99]

I have been using one of the original JB EVSE's for the past 4+ years. It was a "kit" and non-UL rated. Daily use with two Plug-ins and ZERO problems.

 

[alohart]

I have been using one of the original JB EVSE's for the past 4+ years. It was a "kit" and non-UL rated. Daily use with two Plug-ins and ZERO problems.

Same here.

I ordered my kit with the optional small LCD, wireless remote, and programming cable. This JB was the final version with open-source software, so I have been able to reprogram what is shown on the LCD and the user interface for delayed charging start, the total charging time, the charging current, etc., all controlled by the wireless remote. With our JB far out of range of our WiFi router, I am not able to use the WiFi connectivity and smartphone app offered by later versions.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Thanks. I'm in the market for a 40 amp EVSE and have researched Clipper Creek and Juice Box pro Lite (the no frills version)
Both are made in the US. JB says they use both domestic and foreign parts, CC says domestic. I'm not sure how you can really tell these days.
I think both are UL approved ?
CC has a 25 foot long charge cord, JB's is 24.
The big deal to me is that JB is $499 and CC is $659. Both with free shipping.

Let me know if I've missed anything,

The price is the biggest difference as you mention. And since the ClipperCreek doesn't really have any distinct advantage, why spend the extra $$? If you want another reason, the JuiceBox is Energy Star rated and the CC isn't.

 

[alohart]

If you want another reason, the JuiceBox is Energy Star rated and the CC isn't.

I didn't realize that EVSE's were included in the Energy Star program. An Energy Star EVSE consumes ~40% less energy in standby mode in which EVSE's remain ~85% of the time.

Our old JuiceBox kit EVSE is on a switched circuit, so I turn it off whenever it isn't charging our i3. Having its source code, I know that its software executes in a loop continuously, so it almost certainly wouldn't qualify for Energy Star certification. I need to determine whether it would be possible for the CPU to sleep in standby mode and be awakened by a hardware interrupt when plugged into a charging port.

 

[Anonymous]

I looked at several, including Juice Box, but was a little leery of the raft of negative reviews on Amazon.
Was looking for US made with adjustable amp settings in the hardware, not the (sometimes flaky) software - as I have only a 100 amp panel, which will take another 30 amp double-pole 220 breaker, but not a 40 amp.

Found this one, with good reviews, in several "best of" articles, and has internal dip switches to set the amps. Really heavy-duty, and seems very well engineered. So far, working great

https://www.evocharge.com/product/evoinnovate-evse--18-ft-charge-cord.html

I got it on Amazon (best price).
https://www.amazon.com/EVoCharge-EVoInnovate-Electric-Charging-Adjustable/dp/B07BKMX3NL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1544097463&sr=8-1&keywords=EVoInnovate

My electrical panel is in the attached garage, and after local electricians quoted anywhere from $800 to $1200 to wire in a 220 receptacle, with a little Internet/Youtube "how-to" research, I ran 25 feet of PVC conduit from the panel to the back of the garage, and put in the 30 amp breaker, 10 gauge wiring and NEMA 6-50 receptacle myself, for not much over $100 in materials from HD. Easy afternoon project. Suppose I could wire in a disconnect switch next to it, but don't think it vampires much electricity in it's wait-state. You can usually tell when an appliance is sucking up a chunk of electrons while "on" but not in use, as it will generate enough heat that the appliance is warm to the touch. This unit is pretty much stone-cold, unless plugged in to the car and charging, and only barely detectably warm then. And adding a mechanical switch adds in a wear-point, which as it is used and ages, will itself start to vampire electricity through worn connections.

 

[alohart]

I looked at several, including Juice Box, but was a little leery of the raft of negative reviews on Amazon.

"Raft" might be a bit strong with only 6% of 500 reviews either 1 or 2 stars. JuiceBox has been available for many years (ours is 4 years old and has never had a problem) and is one of the most popular U.S. EVSE's.

My electrical panel is in the attached garage, and after local electricians quoted anywhere from $800 to $1200 to wire in a 220 receptacle, with a little Internet/Youtube "how-to" research, I ran 25 feet of PVC conduit from the panel to the back of the garage, and put in the 30 amp breaker, 10 gauge wiring and NEMA 6-50 receptacle myself, for not much over $100 in materials from HD. Easy afternoon project.

Most EVSE's use a NEMA 14-50 plug, so if you decide to replace your EVSE, you'll likely have to install a NEMA 14-50 receptacle.

Suppose I could wire in a disconnect switch next to it, but don't think it vampires much electricity in it's wait-state. You can usually tell when an appliance is sucking up a chunk of electrons while "on" but not in use, as it will generate enough heat that the appliance is warm to the touch. This unit is pretty much stone-cold, unless plugged in to the car and charging, and only barely detectably warm then. And adding a mechanical switch adds in a wear-point, which as it is used and ages, will itself start to vampire electricity through worn connections.

Energy Star certifies EVSE's that consume, on average, 40% less power while idle (i.e., not plugged in or plugged in but not charging). The JuiceBox Pro 40 is Energy Star certified and consumes ~3 W while idle, but the Evocharge doesn't appear to be Energy Star certified. The Energy Star certified EVSE that consumes the most power while idle consumes ~7W of power, so it's likely that the Evocharge either consumes more than 7 W or hasn't been certified by Energy Star yet. That's not a huge vampire drain, but it's 24/7/365, so it could add up. I try to eliminate all vampire drains, so I installed a power switch in our charging circuit and turn it on only while actively charging.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Alohart:
Thanks, good info.

Yeah, JuiceBox was one of the three top contenders I was considering, Clipper Creek being the other. If eMotorworks still made the classic model, without the wifi and voice control, which I don't need or want, and adds to the cost, I might have been tempted - but 6% translates into 1 out of every 17 shipped getting knocked on Amazon, usually for total failure after a few months, or on-going issues with flaky software for the added bells and whistles.

Most of the Evocharge product line is commercial stuff, for public charge stations at apartment complexes and office buildings, so hopefully their lower-end home unit will stand up.

Would be interesting to see what draw the Evocharge does have on standby. A 30 amp double-pole switch is only $8, so I may need to install one in the circuit, like you have. And as far as switching out to a 14-50 receptacle sometime in the future - that's $10 bucks and 3 minutes with a screwdriver, so not a big deal.

 

[alohart]

If eMotorworks still made the classic model, without the wifi and voice control, which I don't need or want, and adds to the cost, I might have been tempted - but 6% translates into 1 out of every 17 shipped getting knocked on Amazon, usually for total failure after a few months, or on-going issues with flaky software for the added bells and whistles.

Interesting! I didn't know that the basic version without WiFi was no longer available.

Our apartment parking garage parking space is ~300' from and 2 floors below our apartment, far out of range of our WiFi base station, so I bought the 60 A JuiceBox kit without the WiFi option but with updatable open source software and the optional small color LCD and wireless remote so that I can adjust its maximum charging current, charging start delay, total charging time, etc., using the wireless remote and LCD.

If I had to buy an EVSE today, I would probably not choose a JuiceBox because of its dependence on WiFi and a smartphone app.

 

[Anonymous]

I bought the 60 A JuiceBox kit

Yeah, those are long-gone. eMotorworks has gone main-stream, and with maybe a few growing pains.

Now to get open source kits, you would need to go to Open EVSE

https://www.openevse.com/

 

[jadnashuanh]

An EVSE doesn't need much power when in an idle situation...none of the idle circuits are power hungry. There are probably a few things running...a status LED, the low-voltage power supply to turn it on and power the PWM generator, GFCI logic, and the interlock sensor circuit...none of those things need much power. Once a vehicle is plugged in, probably the biggest load that isn't being directed to the vehicle is the power to activate the contactor. Some triacs would likely be more efficient, but not provide the safety disconnect of a contactor.

My Clipper Creek unit seems to draw all of a few watts when in standby. A few years ago, I added a power/voltage meter in-line with mine. It also can give an accumulated Kw/hr use. I added an in-line fuse to the thing and an on/off switch (for the meter, not the EVSE). Spent all of about $25 on parts that included a box extension and cover that I cut to allow the panel mount meter to be inserted, the box extender gave me enough depth to not overfill the box. FWIW, in the winter, my normal supply voltage is about 247vac and about 10vac lower on average in the summer. My unit is older, and rated at 30A, but with my inlet voltage, it can max out the i3's on-board charging circuit (7400W on most).

 

[Anonymous]

Asked a friend, who is an electrical engineer (designs solid state chips and circuitry for high-end video cards) what he though stand-by power draw would be on my EVSE. He said with a pic of the circuitry "innards" he could do a calculated guess - but he also said something interesting. That if the "appliance" didn't have an on/off switch, then it was designed to be kept powered up in a wait-state. He said it is actually harder on solid-state circuitry to be powered up and shut off repeatedly, than to be left on in a wait-state, unless specifically designed for the repeated on/off cycles.

He also said that the few watts, energy star certified or not, that an EVSE uses on standby is pretty negligible. If the EVSE uses 7 watts on standby @ 12 cents a kilowatt hour, you are looking at something like $8 bucks a year's in electricity costs if it is on standby 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

 

[alohart]

That if the "appliance" didn't have an on/off switch, then it was designed to be kept powered up in a wait-state. He said it is actually harder on solid-state circuitry to be powered up and shut off repeatedly, than to be left on in a wait-state, unless specifically designed for the repeated on/off cycles.

A problem with adding an on-off switch to an EVSE is that it would need to be able to operate only when the EVSE is not charging or it would have to be a heavy-duty, relatively expensive switch capable of switching high currents. If an EVSE loses power while charging, the EV's on-board charger would register a charging error. I never turn off our charging circuit's power switch while our EVSE is charging, but to prevent that with an on-off switch on an EVSE would add additional complexity and cost to an EVSE.

Most solid-state electronics have on-off switches and work quite well. An EVSE is a very simple electronic device that includes a CPU that runs software in a continuous loop. It's not difficult to design software that doesn't do anything bad when it suddenly stops executing due to a loss of power.

He also said that the few watts, energy star certified or not, that an EVSE uses on standby is pretty negligible. If the EVSE uses 7 watts on standby @ 12 cents a kilowatt hour, you are looking at something like $8 bucks a year's in electricity costs if it is on standby 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

As all of us begin to understand the serious environmental cost of wasting energy, especially as EV and EVSE numbers increase, such unnecessary wasting of energy leaving an EVSE running continuously when it's absolutely unnecessary will become an issue that is addressed because it's so easy to do so. We are urged to eliminate vampire loads in our homes which are generally no larger than that of an EVSE idling, so why ignore an EVSE?

 

[jadnashuanh]

Electronic devices tend to fail during power on cycling. Note, though, that that exposes them to power line anomalies that can also cause damage long-term. This is one reason why a whole house surge suppressor is useful. Some products include inlet power conditioning circuits, but not all. IMHO, it doesn't hurt to try to protect everything, and local conditioning for things that are more expensive.

 

[theothertom]

Electronic devices tend to fail during power on cycling. Note, though, that that exposes them to power line anomalies that can also cause damage long-term. This is one reason why a whole house surge suppressor is useful. Some products include inlet power conditioning circuits, but not all. IMHO, it doesn't hurt to try to protect everything, and local conditioning for things that are more expensive.

Jim,
I'm contemplating a whole house surge suppressor. is there one (or more than one) that you would recommend ?