i3 temporary hill climbing future solution?

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DeafSoundGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
68
Location
Portland ORYGUN
Thank you all you posters who contributed all that info on the last thread about "i3 dangerous to drive up hills). ALL BMW SALESGUYS SHOULD READ THAT THREAD BEFORE SELLING ANYMORE CARS. Not that it would have affected my purchase of my i3 because you'll have to pry it out of my cold fingers before I give it up. But it makes a lot of sense now. When I was buying the car I asked my salesguy about the fact that at the time, I couldn't really find any cold dead facts about the REX - can you keep going or not? Even though he was pretty knowledgeable about the car, he couldn't really answer that question with any certainty. He said "I've heard from one camp that you can, but from another you can't). With these cars being so new, and us in the US not having the luxury of our UK tea-bagging friends of early REX turn-on, it has been the unfortunate learning curve for many. It makes total sense now, you can but you shouldn't... at least from these posts, potential buyers just need to know the awful truth of REX limitations here in the US. Fortunately for me, I had a feeling that this was the way it was - the REX being more of a rang anxiety emergency back-up more than anything. That was my gut feeling and for a car designed to be an urban gas free commuter - it delivers in spades, for me anyway. No qualms here.

Anyone who buys a Bev already should have it figured out that when they buy a car that when you get to zero you are dead. Those buyers already know it's their own fault for trying to go too far. IMO the salesguys should tell REX buyers it is more of the previously stated that it is for us US buyers more of a range anxiety tool than a carefree go as you please trip extender. That's what I'd tell anyone who is seriously thinking of an i3 purchase. I'd tell them flat out don't buy the car if you think it's a mini-Volt. I know the limitations and even more so thanks to the awesome info provided by some of the posters here, and am 100% happy with the i3 except for the obvious little things like sunvisors that don't slide out and the look of kenaf :( .

As an engineer and inventor, I have a suggestion - either the case of a Bev or a REX, how about you can buy (or come with it standard), a separate "emergency" HV battery? Just like when your old ICE car told you by a low range light coming on that you were in the dangerous "low fuel" mode, you had the option of kicking in an emergency HV battery that could propel you another 10 to 15 miles to rid you of this 25 mph embarrassment :oops: if you get stuck? To possibly alleviate anyone to thinking it's yet another cool extender, an annoying - or even worse - flashing - light comes on that tells us we're in EMERGENCY MODE" and maybe could only be activated by pushing a button to even further remind you that this is an EMERGENCY :shock: .

Or, one would have the option of instead of buying a REX for those Bev liking buyers, you could instead buy a bigger EMERGENCY HV battery as another type of range anxiety tool, with an even bigger range of maybe 15 to 25 miles, but still with all the annoying sounds/lights to remind morons that this is for emergencies. Personally, I would have bought THAT scenario HANDS DOWN over the REX, because I from the get-go regard the REX as exactly that, an emergency range extension and no more.

Just sayin'.

If Star Trek Scotty was here what would he do? :geek:





 
If you're planning a longer trip than the batteries can support, it may not matter when you can turn the REx on...it may not get you there whether you can turn it on at 75% like they can elsewhere, or you have to wait for it to turn on when things are down to 6% as it is now in NA. The compromise BMW seems to have worked out, relying on setting in a destination in the nav, will allow the REx to come on to help you get there. But, the i3, as was said, is not a Volt, unless you could replace the engine and generator to be able to have enough reserve to both drive the car AND recharge the batteries when under significant loads. There's a limit on how much a 34Hp engine can produce...the Volt has somewhere in the 80's for hp, and that can keep most cars moving at better speeds than one with 34hp can without battery capacity to boost the total energy available.
 
jadnashuanh said:
If you're planning a longer trip than the batteries can support, it may not matter when you can turn the REx on...it may not get you there whether you can turn it on at 75% like they can elsewhere, or you have to wait for it to turn on when things are down to 6% as it is now in NA. The compromise BMW seems to have worked out, relying on setting in a destination in the nav, will allow the REx to come on to help you get there. But, the i3, as was said, is not a Volt, unless you could replace the engine and generator to be able to have enough reserve to both drive the car AND recharge the batteries when under significant loads. There's a limit on how much a 34Hp engine can produce...the Volt has somewhere in the 80's for hp, and that can keep most cars moving at better speeds than one with 34hp can without battery capacity to boost the total energy available.

Yes, everything you say is kinda my point - that the REX is a series of compromises - NOT a true range extender. All the guys who buy these i3's for thinking they can go the full 81 miles plus all the range extender estimated miles is only for the fortunate few who don't encounter big-ass hills, as sadly posted by those who got the punishing 25 mile per hour limp mode - ouch. Maybe in the UK there's not that many hills or they're not that steep for not too long. I dunno :?: . Just think, if the range extender was marketed as an "emergency" range extender, then all the fuss about what it can't do would essentially be almost mute because they wouldn't be saying it can go another X-amount of miles the same way as your HV battery. It would only be getting you home "somehow for sure as long as you have gas". I'm okay with that. It's an urban zipster, and stop light grand Prix machine. I'm glad these forums exist to let potential buyers know exactly what they're getting into.

I only offer a suggestion with my post of an alternate HV battery as backup or larger one as a replacement for the REX to get on the same page as someone who might be okay with 80 miles but just wants that piece of mind of that extra X-miles in case you have to have it in an emergency. Like what the hell do the Leaf owners do :? ??? I've seen 3 Leafs (Leaves?) on the side of the road dead. At one of those locations, there was an AAA guy there looking at the car, scratching his head, chic at the wheel. What the hell do you do? I personally like the idea of emergency help built-in, and a piece of mind, so the REX was a must-have in my mind for my i3.
 
jadnashuanh,

Just this weekend I drove from Denver to Vail for a day hike and lunch. I had enabled the hold mode on the i3 a couple weeks ago and was looking forward to trying it out. This is a normal use case for Coloradans to either go skiing, hiking, climbing, etc. on a day trip. Denver to Vail is only about 105 miles but has a lot of climbing. Around 9,000 ft of climbing and 8,000 feet of descending, all between Denver and Vail!

On the drive out, I enabled the REx at 75% SOC about 20 miles into the drive. I was able to set the cruise control at 75 MPH over the rest of the highway trip and arrived in Vail with an empty gas tank but had 22% SOC in the battery. While hiking and having lunch, I plugged into a city provided, free Level 2 EVSE and was able to recharge to 83% before departing back to Denver. I didn't even turn on the REx on the way home until I got to 15% SOC since I knew most of the way back was downhill and the REx could handle most of that type of driving.

In summary, the i3 as designed and sold in Europe handles this type of driving quite well. I've never liked BMW calling the i3 a "city car" because it is capable of so much more. I prefer to call it a Metropolitan Car since many large cities have people that travel day trips within 125 miles of the city center and back. For people in Colorado that includes day trips into the mountains!
 
BMW's proposed solution to this, based on the nav system knowing the route and adjusting when the REx can work, would seem to be more reliable as it would work automatically rather than someone having to make a conscious decision to turn the thing on early. Some would do that, some would not think of it, and some might forget. Even if you know the way, I often use the nav on a longer trip so I have a constant indication of the anticipated arrival time, and the distance to the next turn. You can concentrate on driving more, rather than trying to remember when the next turn is. But, if your trip is long enough, and you encounter some of those long grades common in the western USA and Canada, regardless of what you do, unless you can stop and recharge the battery, you can run into problems, whether you have the Euro/world control capabilities, or the BMWUSA proposed alternative.

The key is understanding what you have and accepting the limitations while trying to mitigate them. I find the i3 fine for its design range, but nowhere near as comfortable on a longer trip than my other vehicle, so given that alone, I do not need or want the REx.
 
DHP said:
jadnashuanh,

On the drive out, I enabled the REx at 75% SOC about 20 miles into the drive. I was able to set the cruise control at 75 MPH over the rest of the highway trip and arrived in Vail with an empty gas tank but had 22% SOC in the battery. While hiking and having lunch, I plugged into a city provided, free Level 2 EVSE and was able to recharge to 83% before departing back to Denver. I didn't even turn on the REx on the way home until I got to 15% SOC since I knew most of the way back was downhill and the REx could handle most of that type of driving.

Doh! Call me a Newbie, but how is it you can enable the REX at 75% :shock: ? I thought this was a thing that's trying to get done, not already done. Sure sounds like you had it figured out. Thanks in adavnce!
 
He coded his car to enable the hold mode. See the threads here for details or on the FB page.

Having full control over the REX is a far better solution than BMWs Nav based system given how buggy and failure prone their other software solutions are. Does remote charging within a time window work yet? Not to my knowledge..... Having to enter destinations into your nav system everytime you want to drive over the hill to grandmas house is absurd, just as the whole rationale for CARb taking control away in the first place is.
 
I made a short list of all the complaints about the i3 from various posts. I then went to a large BMW dealer in Sherman oaks and spoke to the service MANAGER: He said basically many employees and the owner bought the car and are enjoying it. I said what about all the comments, and he said: WAIT a few more months into 2015 and BMW will work out most all of the problems customers are having> Also BMW will have a vacation free loaner program,
etc. He said this is a new concept (we all know) and it will take some time.
If you can wait, things will get better:
 
WoodlandHills said:
He coded his car to enable the hold mode. See the threads here for details or on the FB page.

Having full control over the REX is a far better solution than BMWs Nav based system given how buggy and failure prone their other software solutions are. Does remote charging within a time window work yet? Not to my knowledge..... Having to enter destinations into your nav system everytime you want to drive over the hill to grandmas house is absurd, just as the whole rationale for CARb taking control away in the first place is.

Amen!+++ I get real tired of people who don't own or want a Rex telling the rest of us who do all the BS .....that they have been handing out with their holier than thou attitude!

BMW's performance to date does not instill confidence in me regarding the proposed software adjustment to the Rex nav system. Sounds like more, and more, and likely even more software revisions and comprimises down the road to me. 100% agree, the EU capability is the best answer and only answer that wont be a pain in the ass.
 
The i3 may be one of the most computer driven vehicles on the market today. Computers and applications often get regular software updates to cover glitches and add features. Why would you think the i3 would not be the same? Have you ever seen version 1.0 of a software release to be perfect and bug free? Throw in government agencies, and that can throw a big wrench in progress, but it does happen. These things need testing before they're released. That takes time.
 
The issue with control of the REX is NOT a bug to be fixed with a software update. It is the result of a high level decision made by BMW to cynically risk the lives of every NA buyer and their passengers in exchange for points on a bureaucratic scale. By means of this gaming of the rules BMW is able to make a greater profit on their California sales. If it were otherwise we would all be able to turn our RExs on and off just as they can in Europe: the ability is there in every car. This has nothing to do with software bugs and glitches and will not be remedied until enough deaths occur to bring the issue to the notice of the relevant authorities. Based upon recent experiences in America with both Toyota and GM and now Takata, that seems to take a decade or so and kill a couple of dozen......
 
talk to the service manager NOT just a sales person: THEY deal with ALL the problems
try to find a very honest one
 
Bottom line, regardless of when you turn on the REx, if you are approaching a significant grade and your battery's SOC is low, you can have issues just like if your gas tank was low. When you run out, you run out. At least if you still have some gasoline, the i3 doesn't stop dead in the water. Certainly, if you think ahead, you may avoid some of those issues, and the s/w tweak they're contemplating and testing does that for you automatically, but only if you're using the nav. Yes, it's a compromise, but for many non-technical people a good solution. The gauge tells you that your stored energy is low. It should not be a surprise. Turning the REx on earlier only shifts when the battery gets discharged, and if you have not planned your trip for both gasoline and EVSE, it may not get you there. Personally, I don't find that more dangerous than running out of gas on the highway. A very big annoyance, but the monitoring IS there to tell you that you are running out of charge on the i3, the REx gas state, or if on your ICE, when your tank gets low.
 
Irregardless of any technical matters, it is immoral and unethical to knowingly subject your customers to an increased risk of death or injury simply to increase profit. That is what is going on here plain and simple: the vehicle as designed and sold in other places has a given level of safety, in NA the vehicle has less in order to make more money. How can anyone justify this?

BMW is choosing which of its customers deserve the highest level of personal safety and has decided that those in NA deserve a lower level. Even BMW indirectly admit this by their implementing a Nav based attempt to lower the risks: they know that the current situation is is a danger to life and limb. If it was just as safe, they would not have bothered to rush a "fix" into service.
 
As a Volt owner I cannot contribute anything worthwhile to the thread other than to say I feel for you guys. The early Volt didn't have a Hold mode but it had Mountain Mode which could serve as sort of a Hold Mode and recharge the battery. I have a Hold Mode in my 2013 and use it quite a bit. BMW chose wrong on this one thanks to CARB. I hope you will get some sort of update/retrofit in the near future.

My hat goes off to you early adopters. Thanks to you will have more and better options in the future.
 
The Volt's generator is powered by an 84hp motor...the i3's, 34hp...they were designed for two very different purposes and have very different capabilities.
 
jadnashuanh said:
The Volt's generator is powered by an 84hp motor...the i3's, 34hp...they were designed for two very different purposes and have very different capabilities.
I'm fully aware of that. The i3 REx wouldn't work for my lifestyle because of this difference. Yet, the Euro spec i3 REx has a Hold Mode correct? My point was simply meant to agree with the majority of you in saying BMW screwed up bending to CARB's will. :)
 
F8L said:
jadnashuanh said:
The Volt's generator is powered by an 84hp motor...the i3's, 34hp...they were designed for two very different purposes and have very different capabilities.
I'm fully aware of that. The i3 REx wouldn't work for my lifestyle because of this difference. Yet, the Euro spec i3 REx has a Hold Mode correct? My point was simply meant to agree with the majority of you in saying BMW screwed up bending to CARB's will. :)

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. BMW chose their own profit/greed and need for CARB ZEV credits over the functionality of the car in the US vs the Euro version. And sadly it is an easy fix to allow non CARB state owners to have the hold mode enabled, but again it would complicate life for them to have both CARB and non CARB state versions, so they are again opting for a less than satisfactory work around. Do the work around for CARB states if you like but fix the car to the as designed specifications in the other 36 states.

I worked for a big company and I even reported directly to the president for a number of years, I know first hand about corporate greed and this is classic. I personally believe it will come back to bite them in the ass and if they continue on the course of playing work around games then I hope it does. We have had a number of car companies with safety issues surfacing in the past few years and the results are not good when they are called to task by the government. I am hoping BMW will wake up before something bad happens to someone.
 
mindmachine said:
BMW chose their own profit/greed and need for CARB ZEV credits over the functionality of the car in the US vs the Euro version.
The CARB requires BMW and others to produce a certain number of ZEV cars or face a fine. It’s hardly fair to characterize complying with government requirements as greed and profit seeking. Yes, the system allows the manufacturers to swap ZEV credits so they don’t all have to produce these cars. But paying someone else for the credits is simply paying a discounted fine to a third party.

If the federal government ever decides this is an actual safety issue the first ones they should “call to task” should be the CARB for requiring this class of BEVx car to operate this way.
 
It was BMW, not CARB that chose to meet the standard by altering an existing vehicle in such a way as to make it less safe. Their motivation in making this change was to increase profit by gaming a regulation, as a result the car as sold in NA is less safe than the ones sold in the EU and UK. BMW realize that the current media focus on the auto industries ongoing disregard for the lives of their customers make this a bad time to kill any more of them. Thus the Nav based band-aid that is being rushed into service: BMW can now pretend that it will not be their fault when a NA i3 inevitably loses power on a hill and causes a fatal accident. This is not a solution, it is a lawyer driven liability advoidance device packaged as a software update. It simply sets up the conditions to blame the victims/survivors for not properly programming their Nav system whenever an i3 unexpectedly slows when running on the REx causing an accident.
 
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